first standard game-questions

[dacole]

So for various reasons I have never actually finished a standard game of civ IV. Started one today as the english elizibeth terra map huge size epic speed (huge size but withing the first few turns I all ready meet the russians, must be a huge number of civs)

Anyway was considering posting shots of my game in progress to get advice and ask questions to improve my own playing. I don't feel anything like I play well now. Is this a problem with anyone here? How do I go about posting screenshots in the forum never figured out how to do it well. Thanks!

[joncnunn]

There are indeed normally a "Huge" amount of civs when you choose a Huge map.

Sure go ahead.

As to how to do it: three part process:

1. Print Screen to take it; which will be placed in my games - beyond the sword - screen shots folder.

2. Edit the picture to get the width down to the allowed limits. I normally use paint and scale it 0.75 X & 0.75 Y.

3. Post it by hiting "Post Reply" and clicking upload files. One file per post.

[dacole]

ok will do thanks!

Considered trying to play some of the previous aka the first aptoyln university games but wasn't sure given the amount of time passed if that would be worthwhile or not...would have to be careful not to read the DAR's until I finished that era

[dacole]

Since I can only do one file per post going to be a lot of posts here in the begining. May go to using imageshack and just posting links in the future but wanted to get these up tonight.

Anyway example of how the starting area looked. Got lucky with both cow and wheet resources. This pretty much determined the early tech route. To be hunting, farming and then animal husbandry. I started building a worker right away as well which turned out not to be to intelligent...

[dacole]

researched hunting first should have researched farming first as the worker I built now has nothing to do....lost one of the first warriors to barbarians so right now things are not looking to bright for the english...due both to bad luck and stupid decisions by the leader...

[dacole]

I considered restarting at this point but decided to go with the iron man option and see if I could make up for it. Beelined for agriculture as soon as I realized that my worker now would have nothing to do. Lost out on budhism but hinduism still hasn't been discovered may try to go back for it but doubt it honestly as depending on where I put my second city may want to make a move for sailing. Explored in a circular pattern working to build a warrior to replace the one lost. Here you can see my lonely worker going um yeah what am I supposed to be doing..

[dacole]

The next two will show the inside of the city, growing reasonably for epic speed but this will quickly become my growth and then my great person city once it is built up.

[dacole]

city a little later...gah thirty turns to animal husbandry...one question random events are on now do people still leave the science at 100% or do you go a little lower to have money in case needed for random events? Both in Civ and in Alpha Centauri I usually play a tech heavy strategy so I haven't in the past.

[dacole]

ok last one meet the Russians here. They seem to be led by one of the less militaristic leaders (peter) so may not try to destory them right away. Learned so far..if you are going to go with a worker first strategy MAKE SURE the firs tech you research gives him something to do..the time wasted with him just sitting around is way to big a problem especially this early. As well on epic it is almost always nessecary to have two workers doing everything as otherwise it is just to slow. May build a second settler just to lay claim to land before another worker not completly sure, depend on exactly how long it is until the first farm, after the farm until I get animal husbandry and roads will be in the wait for tech again, so probably will do that. Thinking about putting the second city on the coast and getting sailing early. Thoughts? Can't see a way to get both the cows and the deer and have it on the coast so may just try for one deer possibly as capitol will have growth for a good bit taken care off. This would put me closer to taking land from the russians based on the direction they came from as well. Thoughts?

[joncnunn]

Which English leader do you have? (There are 3 in BTS) They have somewhat different strengths to play to.

What size map are you playing? Perhaps more importantly how many civs are there in the game? (You can look at the Victory screen to see how many AI civs there are)

Anyway, if for some weird reason Hinduism isn't discovered yet by the time you finish A.D. then Judism would be worth going after (you probably won't actually get Hinduism but Monotheism provides the first good religous civic.) But if as is more likely someone already gets Hinduism by the time you have A.D. your better off going after Code of Laws (and Confucisim) instead. But you'll want basic worker techs before CoL.

[dacole]

Ah I am playing Elizibeth. The extra money is good for the tech whore strategy I usually play. Huge earth like world epic speed. Will have to look at the victory screen to see number of AI civs, all most feel like that is cheating but I need all the help I can get heh.

[joncnunn]

Yes, the financial traight is in general great along maps with lots of rivers. Cottage over those flood plains after connecting those resources. (That would apply if you were playing Victoria as well)

Now your other strength that's unique to Liz is the Phio. To play to that see if there's any Marble or Stone nearby to build a few wonders to generate a few GP points. In any case though those flood plains cottages will generate a nice food suplus to use specalists when you combine with Temples and/or Libraries as your primary GP source. Universities will also be cheaper for you than Observatories. If you can find Stone nearby, the Pyraimds for early Republic + Caste System would be great.

(By Contrast Victoria's other strength is more suited for fewer turns spent building settlers & generating great generals)

Chuchill though is very different from either Liz or Victoria and would be my least favorite English leader.

[dacole]

Are cottages on flood plains generally cosidered better than farms? I know I have more than enough food here but especially if I am going to only have 1 or 2 people working fields and the rest as great people would not having farms work out better. I suppose I could cottage some and then farm but generally I hate changing from one type of worker to another.

[joncnunn]

For a financial civ, flood plains cottages are normally better; 3 food + 3 commerce to start.

In general best practices is avoid replacing villages / towns with anything else.

On London, my patern would be:

1. Connect those two resources with the building you need for them.
2. Cottage the flood plains
3. Farm the flat plains along the river; (choping forest)
4. Mine the grasland hills tiles (choping forest; river first)
5. Farm the flat plains along the fresh water lake (choping forest)

[dacole]

Hmm ok yea replacing a cottage with anything else would be bad understand that. Should I make an attempt for a religon or should I go for the techs needed to chop forests and add other worker stuff next?

Probably going to make a second settler after a scout and a warrior (exploration protection) before I make another worker but not sold on that yet.

Oh and there are ten other civilizations besides me...that should make things interesting. Found some marble, now going to have to decide if attaching the marble or getting a city on the coast (to build ships) is more important to me.

[joncnunn]

It depends upon how fast you can use marble and/or the sea on the settler placement.

It depends upon the likehood of success of success of founding religions. You'll definately want A.D. first and if your founding the marble city next you'll want Masonary soon as well.

[dacole]

found some marble, screen shot tomorrow. The settletr will be coming next getting the marble and the wonders that come with it is the next critical step.

[dacole]

Here is where the marble is located not in a great place to put a city except for the marble.

Going to explore around that area a little bit more then my next settler will go there. 48 turns to build a settler though gah marathon is so much fun heh.

Now the tech gets even more interesting. To use the marble I need masonry then to really make use of it for wonders I need mysticism and polytheism. So do I go for roads to connect the resources first or go immeaditly to mysticism and polytheism. Buddhism is the only religion that has been founded so far, however I have a lot of other civilizations around so it is likely I have at least one more that starts with mysticism. (peter the only one I have found did not found buddhism).

Really right now connecting the resources doesn't do much for me since I can work them even if they are connected the extra health isn't all that important at this stage so I am thinking about leaving roads and moving on masonry, mysticism, and polytheism. Even if I don't get the religon first it will allow me to start building the +50 great person wonder which would be ever so nice with Lizze. I need to pick up pottery pretty soon so I can start putting out cottages as well hmm probably after polytheism though unless someone else gets the religon first.

A cultural victory is most likely not going to be what I am going for otherwise I would go for more of the religions. So if someone gets polytheism first I will probably go back to pick up cottages and then get polytheism. I expect I have lost the race to stonehenge given lack of stone and leader choice.

[dacole]

Probably going to put the city one space north east of the marble to start working it soon and to not overlap the capitol still thinking about that though.

As well tech picture added just to see where things stand currently.

[joncnunn]

Personally, I'd found Marble city on the Tundra just SW of it. This will turn an almost useless tile into a good one, take in the Marble, and work a lot of grassland river tiles. That would be my first city to found.

The next city I'd found would be the whale / cow city on the one and only tile that would take them both in. (My 3rd city to build a settler for would be generally south along one of those two rivers that flows thru your capital.)

And it's still before 3000 BC; kind of early to rule out a victory mode. And on many maps, if you get Sushi's you can have your space ship building interupted by you winning a cultural victory.

I'd probably reserach Masonry as soon as AD completes.

[dacole]

Isn't it nessecary to get most of the religons to end up with a cultural victory though? So you can build cathedreals? Maybe I have been doing things wrong but I never have a lot of culture. I hate overlapping my fat crosses but I suppose it is nessecary here and the idea that I am ever going to be working all twenty of the places I can work in a city is pretty untrue.

I am going to have to look again but I can't find a place that would take in both the whale and the cows. I agree on going for masonry early especially since I don't have stone and stonehenge is probably out.

Out of curiosity why are you putting the thrid city to the south? I don't usually plan cities until I have explored a good bit. Is it best to try and spread them out evenly around the capitol (actually that makes sense for maintenance purposes).

[joncnunn]

In BTS, you can get a cultural victory from Sushi (and lots of duplicate sea food resrouces) almost by itself.

You don't really need lots of Catherdrials. One or two will suffice; and even if you don't found any religions some religions will get spread to your lands. It's your revenue flow that suffers if you don't have any holy shrines.

The Tundra squre that is S-S of the Whale is also N-NW of the Cow and so will work both as soon as culture expands.

Your in what I call an open enviorment : No easy choke points. In such an enviorment your generally better off building cities close to home first. The first two cities are first ring North and North East and clearly a Southern direction is better than West or East from the River; (a cottage for you produces 3 gold a turn immedately). It's also clear that NW the river is turning into Tundra; not so good.

Now if I see resources I may leap frog to get them and infill later, but these maps are basically screaming at me first found a river city that will also take in the Marble, then found a costal city that takes in both the Whale & Cow and then head south young man.

[dacole]

Haven't had time to look at this for awhile, may end up not having time to finish this one either - sigh.

To me the square you are talking about right next to the coast would be N-NW-N of the cow. I think there are two squares on the sea past the whale, don't have time to open up the game right now or I would look. Ah so expand in a ring in case of attack, makes sense easier to reinforce. I still don't like overlapping tiles but if you are dead by the time the city expands enough to fill them then it wouldn't help and unless it is a production city I expect you won't have every tile worked even then.

By cottage you mean cottage next to a river right? Makes sense to take advantage of the financial aspect.

[joncnunn]

The photo doesn't have grid lines on; I'm reading one less tile North South than you are between the Cow & Whale so you'll have to go inside the game to see.

Yes, cottages along river for financial civs produce 3 gold to start with.
Non river cottages start with just 1 gold like everyone else (but will jump at hamlet.)