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Thread: A Space colonization mod?

  1. #1
    Heraclitus
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    A Space colonization mod?

    It would be a very very entertaining since the economic model of col is better suited for this kind of game than that of BtS.

    Also the concept of the motherland is very much appropriate.


    I think there was a mod called Song of the Moon which already did a lot of the needed graphics for a lunar colonization mod.


    There would be some problems like the fact that there are no
    natives on Mars or the Moon. But perhaps this could be ameliorated by having more civs compete?


    Would the colonization of an extrasolar planet which would have "natives" be a better project?
    Last edited by Heraclitus; August 20, 2008 at 02:46.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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    snoopy369
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    Sure, why not. It would be a lot of work (ie Final Frontier), but given that was possible, I imagine this would be also.

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    Heraclitus
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    Hmm, to be honest I don't quite see why this would be a lot of work compared to the many extreme mods done for Civ4.

    1. Most of the graphics (units, terrain) are already available
    2. Wikipedia provides enough info on space & its potential exploitation


    Question: Do the homeland plots need to be on the edge of the map? If not, we can have a "spaceport" plot next to the starting spot of the civ on the Lunar/Martian surface.

    Also, the problem of natives can be resolved with an appropriate back story. Perhaps robots that where supposed to colonize Mars/ the moon went "wild" and split into "hives" (=tribes) and now the goverments of Earth are sending expeditions to reestablish production of Helium 3 or whatever.

    Or perhaps, the "natives" are more or less space pirates who lived off the land and occasional raiding the ships that brought material from the asteorid belt to Earth.


    Speaking of that an asteroid belt Space Colonization mod seems ridiculously simple:

    Think of a cool name

    Ocean/Water= Space
    Land= Asteorids, Dwarf Planets, Planets

    Rename everything, change graphics, write a map script voila a stable playable space game that can be easily upgraded into something unique.

    Ok, setting the mod in 2075-2275:

    Civs:
    Russia (=France works better with the illegal pirates/robots/corporations )
    America (=Holland, corporations are at the forefront of the endeavor )
    Europe (=England)
    China (=Spain, has no problems with "nationalizing" space pirate/robot/corporate holdings)


    Or should we drop Russia since it isn't going to be a major power in 2075?
    Last edited by Heraclitus; August 20, 2008 at 07:55.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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    Heraclitus
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    The biggest problem is no tech tree.


    Will it be possible to add a real tech tree to col?
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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    Niptium
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    *yawn*

    Given that final frontier was one of the most boring thing ever created I'm wondering why this would even be considered.
    «Vive le Québec libre» - Charles de Gaulle

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    snoopy369
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    FF was fairly interesting, actually... just not YOUR cup of tea I'd guess.

    Hera, it's a lot of work because anything using a fully distinct tileset, and presumably a significantly altered ruleset, is a LOT of work to implement, even if the entire tileset is importable (which it probably is not). If you think it's not a lot of work, go write this mod yourself...
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    Re: A Space colonization mod?

    Originally posted by Heraclitus
    It would be a very very entertaining since the economic model of col is better suited for this kind of game than that of BtS.

    Also the concept of the motherland is very much appropriate.


    I think there was a mod called Song of the Moon which already did a lot of the needed graphics for a lunar colonization mod.
    I think you browsed the CFC COL forum the last few days.
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    But on a more serious note:

    If in this sort of mod Heinlein's concept of a Lunar society is followed, you already have a native kind of people. Also, a tech tree isn't really necessary (infact, its outright superfluous) if the timeline of the mod is kept in increments of months or so. The "Founding Fathers" can serve as a sort of social/industrial/scientific wizzkids improving the society with their gizmo's/ideas as they come along.

    But as Snoopy already said, the main problem would be the graphics department. Song of the Moon had a fair number of graphics/audio, but there's no guarantee these will work in the COL game. IIRC, it was said in the latest PolyCast that graphics can't be ported as they are between the two games.
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    Heraclitus
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    Re: Re: A Space colonization mod?

    Originally posted by GeoModder


    I think you browsed the CFC COL forum the last few days.
    Actually I never go to CFC. Is there a similar thread there? Link?
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

  10. #10
    Heraclitus
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    Originally posted by GeoModder
    IIRC, it was said in the latest PolyCast that graphics can't be ported as they are between the two games.
    C***, missed that. Yeah graphics will be a lot of work then.


    Still do you think people would be interested?
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

  11. #11
    Heraclitus
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    Originally posted by GeoModder
    Also, a tech tree isn't really necessary (infact, its outright superfluous) if the timeline of the mod is kept in increments of months or so.
    This is not really realistic. It will need to spand decades if not centuries.


    The good news may be that, from the little experience we have so far, it seems that the costs of space exploration & colonization can't be skipped or markedly reduced by advances in other fields. As far as technology goes space travel is practically stagnant. I mean look at Orion, its been 50 years since we went to the Moon and now we are going back with basically the same design.


    Maybe the founding fathers could be mostly "inventors" and would basically be techs. By investing into exploring and colonising the Lunar surface you learn how to do stuff.

    Other advances don't need to be modeled. I mean is it actually relevant to the colonization effort that computers get faster every year? Especially since software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster.




    Also events could be used to simulate advances made on Earth that have spread to the Moon.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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    Heraclitus
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    This reminds me, is there a online rundown of all the resources in colonization and the products that can be exported?




    I think a backstory could be crafted so that the resources exported from the Moon will be basically analogous to the resources of Colonization.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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    Heraclitus
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    Colonization of the Moon

    The real problem is how to deal with the sea. Is it possible to put the "sail towards homeland tiles" anywhere on the map?
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

  14. #14
    Heraclitus
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    Originally posted by Niptium
    *yawn*

    Given that final frontier was one of the most boring thing ever created I'm wondering why this would even be considered.
    Ehhh this is not a FF like mod, this is a SMAC-like mod.


    In any case FF was one of the more interesting ones actually. It was only held back by the poor AI, it is also a base for many mod projects.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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    Heraclitus
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    Re: Re: A Space colonization mod?

    Originally posted by GeoModder


    I think you browsed the CFC COL forum the last few days.
    Damn you beat my by a day!


    Interested in starting a mod team?
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

  16. #16
    Niptium
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    What's up with the SMAC love. Sweet Jesus just buy yourself some Master of Orion game - I don't know. Let it rest SMAC is never gonna see a remake for franchise issues... The best they could do is provide a follow up under a different name... The SMAC luv is choking me to death now... I'll start hating this game I once bought.
    «Vive le Québec libre» - Charles de Gaulle

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    snoopy369
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    Get used to it... there are a LOT of SMAC fans out there
    <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
    I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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    Yeah and they all need to be SMACed upside the head to put some sense back into them.

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    Niptium
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    Originally posted by Dale
    Yeah and they all need to be SMACed upside the head to put some sense back into them.
    «Vive le Québec libre» - Charles de Gaulle

  20. #20
    Heraclitus
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    Originally posted by Dale
    Yeah and they all need to be SMACed upside the head to put some sense back into them.

    You don't know what its like to be a SMAniaC. Its wonderfull, the chairman speaks to you in your dreams... you learn to overcome the crasp demands of flesh and bone, and accept the self of group.



    All hail the Chariman! SMAC is the greatest game ever! It will return on the end of days as SMAC 2 and will make all other games obsolete. SMAC Ahbar! Jihad on the infidels!

    :calms down and smiles blissfully while thinking of Planet as he is dragged away in a straitjacket:




    Also sometimes Dierdre speaks to you in your dreams.

    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

  21. #21
    Heraclitus
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    Originally posted by Niptium
    What's up with the SMAC love. Sweet Jesus just buy yourself some Master of Orion game - I don't know.
    Master of Orion =/= SMAC

    SMAC is a game where you colonize one planet
    MMO is a series

    Let it rest SMAC is never gonna see a remake for franchise issues... The best they could do is provide a follow up under a different name... The SMAC luv is choking me to death now... I'll start hating this game I once bought.
    I pronounce a fatwah on you! All orthodox SMAC fanes are obliged by their religion to slap you silly if they meet you!


    You can only save yourself by submiting to Ismac religon!


    PS Smac isn't my main motivation for making this mod. I'm talking about lunar colonization here.

    me to me: "Blasphemy!"

    me to me: "No its not what it seems like! I belive in one SMAC and Brian Reynolds is its prophet... honestly! "

    me to me: "You are an apostate! Death to the apostate! SMAC akhbar! "

    me to me: "Noooo! AHhh, it hurts! "

    me to me:
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by Heraclitus

    I pronounce a fatwah on you! All orthodox SMAC fanes are obliged by their religion to slap you silly if they meet you!


    You'll have to forgive the Col fans - their still sore about the results of this Firaxis poll .

    Anyways, back in February when Dale first posited the idea of a Col2 I voiced my thoughts on making a FF version of the game, as follows:

    I think it'd be pretty neat if someone did a spaced base version of Colonization. The game would begin by you selecting the type of solar system you wish to colonize (i.e. game setup menu options):
    1) Solar system size: the larger the solar system, the more resources that would be available to you (but at the same time this would mean more territory to defend)
    2) Number of wormholes providing access to your solar system: more wormholes means more trade, but also more access for pirates and marauding aliens to pillage your improvements.

    Once the game set-up is complete the game begins by dumping your colonization ships out of a wormhole into your newly franchised solar system, and you begin the process of exploring your new solar system:
    1) Colonize habitable planets.
    2) Establish mining facilities throughout the solar system to gain access to resources which you can then trade with your motherland (at an exorbitant trade rate which favors the motherland).
    3) Explore ancient ruins for relics which can then be sold on the open market (which the motherland can then tax) or sell on the black market for greater profit (if you can get the relics by the motherland inspectors).
    4) Sooner or later you would need to declare independence and fight off the motherland’s armada and shock troops.

    D
    And if Dale DOES choose self exile, then 'poly just lost another one of their star gaming contributors, and that's a pity, since this is still a gaming site.

    -=Vel=-

  23. #23
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    Re: Re: Re: A Space colonization mod?

    Originally posted by Heraclitus
    Damn you beat my by a day!


    Btw, in what format are those YouTube videos? Any chance they can be reformatted in Bik/Bink?
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    Heraclitus
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    Originally posted by Darsnan




    You'll have to forgive the Col fans - their still sore about the results of this Firaxis poll .

    Anyways, back in February when Dale first posited the idea of a Col2 I voiced my thoughts on making a FF version of the game, as follows:

    D
    I actually like your idea. It would be fun to try and do.




    So is anyone interested on working together with me on any of the mod ideas in this thread?
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

  25. #25
    GeoModder
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    Originally posted by Heraclitus
    So is anyone interested on working together with me on any of the mod ideas in this thread?
    Depends...
    He who knows others is wise.
    He who knows himself is enlightened.
    -- Lao Tsu

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  26. #26
    Impaler[WrG]
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    Question: Do the homeland plots need to be on the edge of the map? If not, we can have a "spaceport" plot next to the starting spot of the civ on the Lunar/Martian surface.
    My recommendation would be to get into the very accessible DLL and modify ships to be able to depart for earth from any point on the map (this should be as simple as removing a boolean check on the plot). Then the ship will just 'blast off' from ware it is and in X turns show up in the earth screen ware you load. Also you remove the need to put down the 'sail zone' flags on map generation, simplifying your scripts considerably. When you go back you will appear ware you left off (because the game is really not moving anything just hiding the ship from view and flagging it to denote the fact its sailing to/from or in Europe).

    If you want to get really fancy you could implement some kind of 'disposable' ship which deletes itself (or turns into X units of 'metal' resource) upon arriving in the world to represent expendable rockets. The cargo will just sit on the map until its picked up by a Wagon Train equivalent.

    Also I'd reverse China and Europe in your proposed country equivalents as Colonization England = lots of immigrants = China with huge population and Colonization Spain = attack the natives = England has a long history of fighting pirates (and being pirates too but were going to gloss over that).
    Companions the creator seeks, not corpses, not herds and believers. Fellow creators, the creator seeks - those who write new values on new tablets. Companions the creator seeks, and fellow harvesters; for everything about him is ripe for the harvest. - Thus spoke Zarathustra, Fredrick Nietzsche

  27. #27
    Heraclitus
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    Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]


    My recommendation would be to get into the very accessible DLL and modify ships to be able to depart for earth from any point on the map (this should be as simple as removing a boolean check on the plot). Then the ship will just 'blast off' from ware it is and in X turns show up in the earth screen ware you load. Also you remove the need to put down the 'sail zone' flags on map generation, simplifying your scripts considerably. When you go back you will appear ware you left off (because the game is really not moving anything just hiding the ship from view and flagging it to denote the fact its sailing to/from or in Europe).
    You can do that? Cool! I think that is probably the best way to go. I was thinking of making ships reusable for simplicity and since by 2075 we'll probably get space plane technology right.


    Question: Is it possible for to mod the game so that land units can be transports and can leave for Europe?

    Since there really is no equivalent to the sea on the Moon/Mars.


    BTW Would a Terraformed Mars be a better scenario for colonization? If so the date would have to be pushed several centuries forward.

    Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
    Also I'd reverse China and Europe in your proposed country equivalents as Colonization England = lots of immigrants = China with huge population and Colonization Spain = attack the natives = England has a long history of fighting pirates (and being pirates too but were going to gloss over that).
    Hm maybe you are right. In the game England's bonus comes from needing less crosses. China has a large population and its population has lower expectations when it comes to Freedom.

    But Europe as Spain? I'm not quite sure Europe will ever become the agressive bunch it once was. Maybe put America as Spain (fighting the terrorists) and change Europe to Holland?
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

  28. #28
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    Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
    My recommendation would be to get into the very accessible DLL and modify ships to be able to depart for earth from any point on the map (this should be as simple as removing a boolean check on the plot). Then the ship will just 'blast off' from ware it is and in X turns show up in the earth screen ware you load. Also you remove the need to put down the 'sail zone' flags on map generation, simplifying your scripts considerably. When you go back you will appear ware you left off (because the game is really not moving anything just hiding the ship from view and flagging it to denote the fact its sailing to/from or in Europe).
    Good to know such a thing is possible.
    (I was under the impression a 'homeland zone' had to be designated whatever you mod)
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    snoopy369
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    This is why Civ is so moddable (and thus Col)... because you can go in and change anything
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    Impaler[WrG]
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    Question: Is it possible for to mod the game so that land units can be transports and can leave for Europe?
    I'm not sure how the ability to sail to Europe is coded, it might be a property of Domain 'Water' or it might be that placing 'High Seas Zone' on land will give any unit the ability, it wasn't my part to code all that. But I'm sure its moddable, EVERYTHING is moddable, the whole game is a enormous mod in the sense that we started with Civ4 and modified it bit by bit into what it is now (in this sense every iteration of Civ is a mod of the last version because thats how their developed), with enough time you could mod it into a FPS


    Agree with your Europe as Holland, America as Spain especially considering the present state of the US and EU economies.

    I think you should plan for a variety of vehicles and have all or most of them unique to each Power, so Russia has Soyuz capsules (small capacity but very cheap), US has Shuttle (or Orion if the timer periods further out) which is expensive but Big. Would add a lot of variety to the play styles of the major powers.

    Lastly if your wanting to have technology I'd recommend an Imperialism model in which tech is not researched (after all you control the colony and would be tasked with getting resources ware as research would be done on Earth). Instead technology becomes available at a particular year +/- a random range. You code in the target year into the UnitInfo or BuildingInfo file along with the spread and at load the game rolls the +/- component and records the hidden true year of availability. From then on its a simple check to compare the current year with that value to see if its valid to build or not. This has the advantage of creating 'Tech' without any new file or data structures or any decisions needed by the player. For UI you just need a simple Python script which will loop all the unit types and if the current turn equals their reveal turn throws up a simple "Such and Such is available to Build" screen.

    BTW Would a Terra formed Mars be a better scenario for colonization? If so the date would have to be pushed several centuries forward.
    Its doable but I like the "Asteroids floating in Space" idea more, Mars colonization is typically depicted as being more self sufficient and we lose any sense of the navel side of things. Ideally both would be available as different map scripts to provide very different playing fields. Normal Colonization gets a very different feel in Archipelagos vs Continental maps.
    Last edited by Impaler[WrG]; August 23, 2008 at 02:26.
    Companions the creator seeks, not corpses, not herds and believers. Fellow creators, the creator seeks - those who write new values on new tablets. Companions the creator seeks, and fellow harvesters; for everything about him is ripe for the harvest. - Thus spoke Zarathustra, Fredrick Nietzsche

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