Advanced Start - Strategies?

[billones]

I've never used the Advanced Start procedure, but a couple friends want to use it in a game we're starting tomorrow.

How does it affect things? Does it serve as a cushion against "bad starts"? Anything particularly out-of whack (always buy X, never buy Y)?

[snoopy369]

The AI doesn't use it well.

Make sure you are aware of the enforced peacetime (and if you agree to extend it or not); IIRC it is only 10 turns. This determines if you should buy a lot of military units or not

If you have a guarantee of some peace (such as a very large map, or an agreement for early peace), buy a lot of techs early on, particularly if you can beeline for something interesting. Then buy enough cities to be able to keep up, and several workers. (Number of cities is affected by the time you advance to, of course.)

Always try to buy at least one expansion of culture per city; IIRC there are rules regarding where you can place a second city (and units, etc.) related to your cultural border. Take advantage of that. Culture is cheap, at least for the first expansion or two.

Don't buy very many improvements of your land, workers can do those quickly. Just buy 2 workers/city.

[johnmcd]

Never buy culture, it's really expensive!

An early religion is handy, as are settlers and workers.

If you are nervous about culture get a religion and it'll spread soon enough or get a monument for each town, it's cheaper but you don't end up with the asset of a religion.

[snoopy369]

You definitely need to buy that first layer of culture... you are significantly hampered in how you can do other things otherwise.

Don't buy more than the one ring, unless there's an overriding reason for it, but the first ring is cheap...

[Garth Vader]

How many points are you starting with? When I tried it out I just used the default so I grabbed a religion an extra city, some workers and scouts.

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by snoopy369
You definitely need to buy that first layer of culture... you are significantly hampered in how you can do other things otherwise.

Don't buy more than the one ring, unless there's an overriding reason for it, but the first ring is cheap...

A ring of culture costs about the same as a third population or about two and half times a monument. I really can't think of a reason to take it.

You get it in fifteen turns with a Palace or after thirty turns with a monument; instantly if your Creative.

Cultural expansion is so expensive! I'm playing early start, marathon, 1980 points (or whatever is default).

[martin mcmartin]

depends on a lot of factors. don't buy culture! if you want instant culture start with the dutch or sumerians. that is the only thing I can say, it is too expensive and you get it for free after a little while.

- check if you have an early UU that is usable
- buy 3-4 cities with 1 workers each if you are FIN or ORG. otherwise a few settlers (cheaper than cities!) to be able to expand. begin small if you expect money trouble! 2 workers per city if you are not buying improvements. only buy improvements (mine+roads) if you have instant access to stone/marble/iron/copper.
- buy 1 harbor and start building lighthouse right away, you will like it.
- buy as many techs as you can. but keep some money for your (unique) units.
- the more cities, the more units you can stack in them. 3 cities: 5 vultures and 1 scout. workers and settlers do not count in the stack. first buy your units, then fill up with workers and settlers.

this is basically what I do. every leader has his/her own pro's and cons. you decide if you start with more cities or more advances. sure the advances are the most important because these are gamewinners if you own the important ones from the start. and, you can start with 10% techdiscovery. this might be needed if you have too many cities from the start.

if you want detailed info on possible starts, tell me what you start with and I will give you the IMHO best start-options.

Mc

[Proteus_MST]

Scouts are useful puchase (aside from cities, workers and techs that give you your first religion), especially if you play with goodie huts activated, therefore try to have enough points for the purchase of "Hunting" left, as well as for a few initial scouts.

[egavactip]

having played advanced start several times in a row recently (largest map and longest time scale), I think the AI doesn't handle it well. The AI seems to rarely found many cities, whereas you can get a significant head start with three cities, a guaranteed religion, mining, and some scouts and warriors. You are very likely to be able to easily overwhelm any nearby civilizations (last time I played, I conquered three of them in the early game and had won a conquest victory in the early 1600s on noble).

[Garth Vader]

Originally posted by egavactip
having played advanced start several times in a row recently (largest map and longest time scale), I think the AI doesn't handle it well. The AI seems to rarely found many cities, whereas you can get a significant head start with three cities, a guaranteed religion, mining, and some scouts and warriors. You are very likely to be able to easily overwhelm any nearby civilizations (last time I played, I conquered three of them in the early game and had won a conquest victory in the early 1600s on noble).

I think the new patch fixed that a bit. I tried recently after this thread and all the AI's started with 2-3 cities.

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by Garth Vader


I think the new patch fixed that a bit. I tried recently after this thread and all the AI's started with 2-3 cities.

Civs with an interest in big empires do lay down the cities, it's just a point in the game where, say, a hundred decisions are compressed into one. The qualitative difference between the AI and a real intelligence are made clear.

It's not that the AI is bad at advanced start, it's just the differences are accelerated (I think).