Strategy Discussion - Metagame

[mostly-harmless]

Cool. *heads over there*

Btw. does anyone think, that the failure of diplomacy (I compare this with the diplomacy of the CivFan MTDG) has anything to do with us not being Apolyton regulars?

mh

[Dreylin]

I don't know, but I have been wondering if we have a spy / spies reading our forums. Probably just being paranoid, but we haven't exactly been complimentary about most of the other teams at one time or another....

[Krill]

If there is that person is going to get permabanned from so many sites it's unreal.

I've not seen anything untoward said though though. That is one thing I keep an eye out for at all times.

[Zeviz]

I think the reason for current political situation is quite simple: Remember that 3-way alliance PAL was offering back at the start of the game? They've finally found 2 teams desperate enough to take them up on that offer. As for why PAL is so afraid of us, look at it from their POV:

We told them we are going for Nationalism. Imperio/Templar alliance was getting ready to attack us for yeary, but when they finally did, not only did they fail to take a single city, our power graph shot up faster than theirs combined. So when we do get Nationalism, we are likely to wipe out all other teams on our continent. (Which is exactly what we are planning to do. ) This means it's in PAL's best interest to make sure we get hurt very badly before we can get our hands on Nationalism. Don't think we are the only team with a competent C&D department.

[mostly-harmless]

I think the reason for current political situation is quite simple: Remember that 3-way alliance PAL was offering back at the start of the game? They've finally found 2 teams desperate enough to take them up on that offer. As for why PAL is so afraid of us, look at it from their POV:

We told them we are going for Nationalism. Imperio/Templar alliance was getting ready to attack us for yeary, but when they finally did, not only did they fail to take a single city, our power graph shot up faster than theirs combined. So when we do get Nationalism, we are likely to wipe out all other teams on our continent. (Which is exactly what we are planning to do. ) This means it's in PAL's best interest to make sure we get hurt very badly before we can get our hands on Nationalism. Don't think we are the only team with a competent C&D department.

I totally agree with this assessment. And then take this the next logical step further. Imperios and Templars are not stupid either and will recognize the danger in us getting Nationalism. That is why they absolutely must get rid of us now instead of turning against PAL as partners in a RB led alliance.

mh

[sunrise089]

@Dreylin - That's always a risk with so many lurkers we don't know well. But that's just part of playing a game like this. I don't think it makes sense to hide our true feelings here and therefore play a worse game.

Plus, I think we've been harsh on some of the other teams' gameplay, but not on them personally.

[dsplaisted]

Hi guys. I joined a few days ago mainly with the intention of being a lurker, but this game is so interesting I think I might get sucked in here.

The plan for operation bloodbath as I understand it is to create a stack of doom with the help of globe theatre drafting, and use it to eliminate Imperio and/or Templar. We will end up in control of our continent but will be at a disadvantage to the runaway research of PAL, with a good chance of losing the game to them in the end.

PAL is the real long-term threat, and they've recently more or less joined the war on the side of our enemies. They have a non-agression pact with Team Banana until around turn 169, which has enabled them to neglect military buildup in favor of their economy and research. So it would really be nicer if we could use our stack of doom against them.

We can't realistically do this while still at war on our continent, and our neighbors certainly aren't about to make peace with us. However, if we can show up with the stack of doom on their doorstep and make it obvious that they are about to be wiped out entirely, perhaps we can pretty much dictate the terms of a "peace agreement" (really a capitulation), and then send our stack on to fight PAL.

This may be difficult to pull off. We need a stack of overwhelming force so that our neighbors feel they have no chance against us. We probably need both Imperio and Templar to capitulate before moving on to fight PAL. We'll need a way to transport our troops to the other continent, which will probably require help from Team Banana. And we need to try to keep this all a secret from PAL until the last minute.

What do others think of this plan and of the odds of us actually pulling this off?

I would suggest calling this plan Project NTSC. ;-)

Thanks,
Daniel

[sunrise089]

dsplaisted,

My only initial thought is that if we have the firepower to broker peace with our enemies on our terms, I'd rather use it to kill them and then take the land for ourselves. Frankly I trust RB with an entire continent versus PAL over an alliance with Templars and Imperio, no matter how dictated.

Remember, if we keep Imperio and Templars alive we have to worry about the threat of them backstabbing us. If we kill them we can do some sort of all-out intercontinental war with PAL that slows their tech rate and lets us snag a cultural victory. That's just an off-the-cuff plan, but anyways I'd rather rely on us than Imperio/Templars.

[regoarrarr]

So.... here's a thought - if IMperio would still take peace for Cape Town, what about we give them Cape Town in exchange for a 20-30 turn NAP and alliance against Templars, then use that time to prepare Operation bloodbath and rule the continent?

I mean I want to stick it to both Imperio and Templars as much as the next guy, but the longer we face a 2v1 alliance (with PAL feeding them both military techs), the less chance we have at even surviving.

Just kind of came to me as a brainstorm and I don't know if it's even feasible but thought it was worth considering

[sunrise089]

I don't like the idea on principle. Once we have our theaters up and running, it would seem like 4-5 of our cities could produce units. Though Imperio did slave lots of stuff this turn, we've otherwise been able to keep pace with them. I'd rather try to kill the Templar stack outside Pink, maybe get lucky with our horses versus Jerusalem, and make a broad push into Templar land soon.

I will admit however that rego's plan may be objectively better. I just don't like the idea of taking peace on Imperio's terms.

[Dreylin]

I agree with sunrise; we have to at least make a stab at Templars stack before we consider Imperio's offer. Remember that we lose all our own strategic resources with Cape Town...

[regoarrarr]

Agreed - though Operation bloodbath doesn't require copper or horses

[Dreylin]

Well we did talk about Knights in support, but I guess at it's heart we only need the Oromos.

[sunrise089]

Well we did talk about Knights in support, but I guess at it's heart we only need the Oromos.

From Muskets until Tanks we only NEED resourceless units, but knights and cavs are sure nice...

[Zeviz]

The biggest problem with giving Imperio Cape Town is that it's our top military factory, capable of producing almost a unit per turn. Even if we re-capture it in 25 turns, that's a lot of units that will be trained by Imperio instead of us.