[2008.03.12. 21:43:39] bT says: gs asking for it
[2008.03.12. 21:57:53] Impaler says: that city placement is really rude if you ask me
[2008.03.12. 21:59:18] Impaler says: I had talked with Blake about how to divide that territory and we we expresses agreement on spliting it, their city takes ALL the major resources and leaves no viable coastal city spots for us
[2008.03.12. 22:35:04] bT says: I think it's war
[2008.03.12. 22:35:22] bT says: they are not really researching - it's also obvious
[2008.03.12. 22:35:58] bT says: we can have 7 chuks, mace and ax there in short time should we wish so
[2008.03.12. 22:38:04] PJayTycy says: I was wrong about horses though, there's horses just north of Hun too (blush)
[2008.03.12. 22:38:39] Lacero says: burn the city and defend the mountains?
[2008.03.12. 22:38:49] PJayTycy says: btw, in the midturn you posted, you didn't whip library yet
[2008.03.12. 22:38:54] bT says: yes
[2008.03.12. 22:39:08] bT says: we can burn two cities with those troops
[2008.03.12. 22:39:17] bT says: at least
[2008.03.12. 22:40:40] bT says: and they have 6 now
[2008.03.12. 22:43:55] bT says: so what are your thoughts of going to war?
[2008.03.12. 22:44:22] Lacero says: the only question I have is when tbh
[2008.03.12. 22:44:43] Lacero says: do we throw those chucks at them and try and get a new army ready for a counter attack?
[2008.03.12. 22:45:08] Lacero says: or build up now and hit them once we're ready
[2008.03.12. 22:45:09] PJayTycy says: I think we should just move our chuck in their city culture
[2008.03.12. 22:45:18] Lacero says: oh...
[2008.03.12. 22:45:22] bT says: why?
[2008.03.12. 22:45:22] Lacero says: that's nice
[2008.03.12. 22:45:54] Lacero says: .. we have open borders don't we
[2008.03.12. 22:46:11] Lacero says: that's no good pj, it makes it harder to declare war. it's not threatening at all
[2008.03.12. 22:47:46] bT says: we must go war no or never
[2008.03.12. 22:47:54] bT says: since they are getting closer and closer to gunpowder
[2008.03.12. 22:49:01] Lacero says: war now then. but I've not trusted them since they suggested that plan
[2008.03.12. 22:49:01] PJayTycy says: I just want to see their city
[2008.03.12. 22:49:17] bT says: for what use?
[2008.03.12. 22:49:23] bT says: to detect the troops in there?
[2008.03.12. 22:49:34] bT says: I would say let's whip all we can and overrun all we can
[2008.03.12. 22:53:39] PJayTycy says: Send a message we are not happy with their new city, because it is against previous proposals. Tell them we will permanently post an "observer" in there because we feel threatened by it. In the mean time just build up a road towards them.
[2008.03.12. 22:53:56] PJayTycy says: Ofcourse, I don't think we will ever get feudalism if we do that
[2008.03.12. 22:54:06] PJayTycy says: But, I don't think we'll ever get it anyway
[2008.03.12. 22:54:18] Lacero says: if we're going to fight then we start by burning their cities. then send diplomacy afterwards
[2008.03.12. 22:54:25] Lacero says: anything else just tells them we're on to them
[2008.03.12. 22:55:00] Impaler says: I tend to agree, btw is their mil strength incressing at all?
[2008.03.12. 22:55:41] PJayTycy says: it's been stable since their (failed) attack on voice
[2008.03.12. 22:55:41] Lacero says: hell if you like we can burn one city and say we're extremely upset about feudalism and if they send it quickly enough we'll call off the war
[2008.03.12. 22:55:51] Lacero says: I doubt they will but it might be worth a try
[2008.03.12. 22:56:34] PJayTycy says: I don't think our current chucks south (4 of them) will be enough to capture+burn that one city though
[2008.03.12. 22:57:11] PJayTycy says: it's very close to their core + it's practically the only one where they need to send their military units
[2008.03.12. 22:57:14] Impaler says: depends on what they have in it for defence
[2008.03.12. 22:57:55] Impaler says: if its garisoned right now with a large army then it proves they expected a war and intended on screwing us
[2008.03.12. 22:58:10] Impaler says: but I think thats unlikely
[2008.03.12. 22:59:00] Impaler says: and their tech is lower then ours, even 1 on 1 our units could win especialy with no culture built up yet and no fortifying
[2008.03.12. 22:59:14] PJayTycy says: that's why I want to take a look in it
[2008.03.12. 22:59:23] PJayTycy says: it's very valuable information
[2008.03.12. 22:59:24] Lacero says: and especially with bombard
[2008.03.12. 23:00:09] Impaler says: well we could move one unit in (without declaring war) and if it looks weak, declare this turn and move in the rest for an attack next turn
[2008.03.12. 23:00:10] Lacero says: er, er collateral
[2008.03.12. 23:00:49] Lacero says: but, if it does have a strong army then they want war and is there any use to us in delaying it?
[2008.03.12. 23:00:53] Impaler says: also I could try talking with Blake he is online now
[2008.03.12. 23:00:57] PJayTycy says: there's only one unit available to move in right now
[2008.03.12. 23:01:08] Impaler says: oh
[2008.03.12. 23:01:38] PJayTycy says: the other 3 are trying to force Hun to work food instead of hammers
[2008.03.12. 23:02:47] PJayTycy says: expressing more concern towards Blake will also reveal we are getting annoyed (just as much as moving in one unit)
[2008.03.12. 23:02:56] Lacero says: yes
[2008.03.12. 23:03:12] Lacero says: we've told them we're annoyed, they know that. next step is to act
[2008.03.12. 23:03:18] Impaler says: well I could give an ultimatime
[2008.03.12. 23:03:36] bT says: no
[2008.03.12. 23:03:41] Impaler says: that seems the next step
[2008.03.12. 23:03:42] bT says: diplomacy is off
[2008.03.12. 23:03:49] bT says: no warning the enemy
[2008.03.12. 23:03:52] PJayTycy says: they're probably laughing at our diplomacy, just like we were with bananas at the end
[2008.03.12. 23:03:55] bT says: let's leave chuk where it is
[2008.03.12. 23:04:08] Lacero says: I think the only question is whether to move that one unit in now to scout, or to prepare to move them all asap
[2008.03.12. 23:04:21] bT says: if it moves towards or away both are signs of weakness
[2008.03.12. 23:04:23] Lacero says: concentrating at their border will warn them too so I can see good reason to scout
[2008.03.12. 23:04:26] bT says: so is diplomacy
[2008.03.12. 23:04:34] bT says: our army is enough to overrun two cities and more
[2008.03.12. 23:04:47] bT says: since their army consists of spears, skirms and axes
[2008.03.12. 23:04:52] PJayTycy says: banana cities yes, but I really doubt they can't hold up against 4 chucks
[2008.03.12. 23:04:53] Lacero says: and if all their army is massed in one city, we dodge it and move round?
[2008.03.12. 23:05:09] PJayTycy says: they have roads, we can not "dodge" it
[2008.03.12. 23:05:13] bT says: who said 4 chuks
[2008.03.12. 23:05:18] bT says: 7 chuks, mace and axe
[2008.03.12. 23:05:31] bT says: those two cities can be counted dead once we start
[2008.03.12. 23:05:36] Lacero says: exactly pj :O
[2008.03.12. 23:06:21] bT says: the area around city is excellent for moving in troops
[2008.03.12. 23:06:23] Lacero says: how many turns can we have 7 chuks and a mace and axe inside their borders?
[2008.03.12. 23:06:24] bT says: 2 forests
[2008.03.12. 23:09:38] bT says: 10 turns until that city razed if we start now
[2008.03.12. 23:10:14] Lacero says: damn that's a long time. we'll need to keepr diplomacy up for that if we're going to keep any sense of surprise
[2008.03.12. 23:10:25] bT says: 5 more turns to next city
[2008.03.12. 23:10:41] bT says: and what will we say in that diplomacy?
[2008.03.12. 23:10:51] bT says: they have effectively done a slap in the face
[2008.03.12. 23:10:57] Lacero says: give us feudalism! please! we mean it!
[2008.03.12. 23:11:31] Lacero says: if they think we're begging and we've got 5 chucks ready to pop next turn that's probably the best we can do in this situation
[2008.03.12. 23:11:48] Impaler says: well I guess we keep up the talk about how were so eager to get fudalism and make future deals
[2008.03.12. 23:11:49] bT says: ok
[2008.03.12. 23:11:53] bT says: but that must be smart
[2008.03.12. 23:11:55] PJayTycy says: inside their borders, ready to attack:
turn 0 : 1 chuck
turn 3 : 2 chucks
turn 4 : 3 chucks
turn 5 : 4 chucks
turn 7 : 4 chucks + 1 mace
turn 8 : 4 chucks + 1 mace + 1 almost dead axe
turn 11 : 5 chucks + 1 mace + 1 almost dead axe
turn 14 : 6 chucks + 1 mace + 1 almost dead axe
[2008.03.12. 23:12:05] bT says: not too obvious
[2008.03.12. 23:12:49] Impaler says: we need to get even more road builders down their
[2008.03.12. 23:12:51] bT says: PjaytTycy have you counted the pre-produced chuck from DongJing?
[2008.03.12. 23:12:58] bT says: and the whippable one from Mhasa
[2008.03.12. 23:13:07] bT says: axe can still be promoted and heal in 2 turns
[2008.03.12. 23:13:26] Lacero says: I've got to go but I'm all for causing death and destruction. we might even win
[2008.03.12. 23:13:35] bT says: we will win
[2008.03.12. 23:13:37] PJayTycy says: it's not "preproduced"... it's only 12/60 finished
[2008.03.12. 23:13:41] bT says: we have more everything
[2008.03.12. 23:13:43] bT says: it's done
[2008.03.12. 23:13:45] bT says: this turn
[2008.03.12. 23:13:50] bT says: one click of button
[2008.03.12. 23:14:42] PJayTycy says: ah, whipping a chuck in dongjing might be a good course of action in any case
[2008.03.12. 23:14:54] PJayTycy says: I just don't know if mhasa should build chuck or mace
[2008.03.12. 23:15:47] bT says: mhasa will be able to whip chuck next turn
[2008.03.12. 23:15:52] bT says: mace in 2 turns
[2008.03.12. 23:16:44] Impaler says: mace might be preferable
[2008.03.12. 23:17:06] Impaler says: we also need a spearman in case of elies
[2008.03.12. 23:18:23] PJayTycy says: mace+city attack against axes
chuck+cover against skirmishers
[2008.03.12. 23:19:13] PJayTycy says: if we wait for the chuck from dongjing, this one turn difference in time for mace/chuck in mhasa doesn't matter to me
[2008.03.12. 23:19:27] PJayTycy says: so, I prefer mace in mhasa
[2008.03.12. 23:20:45] Impaler says: spearman?
[2008.03.12. 23:21:05] PJayTycy says: How many turns does GS have construction yet ?
[2008.03.12. 23:21:07] bT says: not now
[2008.03.12. 23:21:13] bT says: they have 0 elephants
[2008.03.12. 23:21:18] bT says: or we would know it
[2008.03.12. 23:21:23] bT says: by sharp power spike
[2008.03.12. 23:22:12] PJayTycy says: would an elephant resource show up in the resource trade screen?
[2008.03.12. 23:22:16] PJayTycy says: because now there is none
[2008.03.12. 23:22:44] bT says: Pjay - yes
[2008.03.12. 23:22:50] bT says: and there is none
[2008.03.12. 23:23:27] PJayTycy says: I'm not sure if the first resource is shown there... I thought maybe one is always kept for yourself
[2008.03.12. 23:23:34] bT says: all shown
[2008.03.12. 23:23:50] PJayTycy says: there's one rice shown for us, don't we have more ?
[2008.03.12. 23:23:58] bT says: no
[2008.03.12. 23:24:02] bT says: not hooked
[2008.03.12. 23:24:40] PJayTycy says: well, but once we see them hooking up elephants, we might want a spearman...
[2008.03.12. 23:25:03] bT says: mace and chuck will do as well and will be usable vs other troops as well
[2008.03.12. 23:25:06] PJayTycy says: it will still take 10 turns for us to bring him down there, while they can build an elephant in less time
[2008.03.12. 23:25:15] PJayTycy says: so, do you agree with mace in mhasa ?
[2008.03.12. 23:25:16] bT says: spearmen are useless vs ele + axe stack
[2008.03.12. 23:25:18] bT says: yes
[2008.03.12. 23:27:14] bT says: so this is more like:
0 turns: 1 chuck - could attack the spear and send ultimate
1 turns: 1 chuck - could attack the spear if it tries to escape
2 turns: 2 chucks
3 turns: 3 chucks (first possible point of attack on city)
5 turns: 4 chucks (2nd possible point of attack on city)
7 turns: 4 chucks and mace (3rd possible point of attack on city)
9 turns: 5 chucks, 2 maces and axe (4th possible point of attack on city)
11 turns: 6 chucks, 2 maces and axe (should be past 2nd city by this point)
[2008.03.12. 23:27:36] bT says: I vote for attacking asap
[2008.03.12. 23:27:55] bT says: they are preparing
[2008.03.12. 23:28:21] |SafaN| says: yup thats obvious now
[2008.03.12. 23:28:32] bT says: btw
[2008.03.12. 23:28:38] bT says: we can upgrade the axe to mace
[2008.03.12. 23:28:40] bT says: for 125g
[2008.03.12. 23:29:38] Impaler says: humm duno about that
[2008.03.12. 23:29:46] |SafaN| says: just an idea (don't shoot me if it won't work) if they concentrate all defenses in the istmus, can we bypass with a galley, or is that to much work?
[2008.03.12. 23:30:13] Impaler says: very good idea actualy
[2008.03.12. 23:31:01] bT says: lots of work
[2008.03.12. 23:31:03] PJayTycy says: It's 10 turns travel
[2008.03.12. 23:31:13] bT says: no groundwork done
[2008.03.12. 23:31:27] bT says: could be next thing in Xin Guangzhou tho
[2008.03.12. 23:31:35] PJayTycy says: I think it's good for troops in Tassagrad and Xian to replace wounded units after the first 2 cities fell
[2008.03.12. 23:31:40] bT says: btw, they have maxed their mfg since like 4 turns
[2008.03.12. 23:31:46] bT says: so they are pre-producing troops I guess
[2008.03.12. 23:32:35] PJayTycy says: Tass + Xian can produce troops, Xin Guangzhou some galleys and then the troops can sail down to replace almost exactly on the moment we will need replacements
[2008.03.12. 23:34:01] PJayTycy says: also, our chuck is on hill, why aren't we seeing they city now ??
[2008.03.12. 23:34:29] bT says: forest inbetween
[2008.03.12. 23:34:40] PJayTycy says: but we see the horses ...
[2008.03.12. 23:35:03] bT says: yes
[2008.03.12. 23:35:08] bT says: no forest inbetween
[2008.03.12. 23:35:11] PJayTycy says: anyway, that's not war/gs related, more game-rule related, so it doesn't really matter now
[2008.03.12. 23:36:03] PJayTycy says: so, whipping chuck in dongjing next turn, mace in mhasa in 2 turns => that's decided
[2008.03.12. 23:36:14] PJayTycy says: what about our front chuck, spy or no spy...
[2008.03.12. 23:36:37] PJayTycy says: If we think they are out for war, I think it doesn't matter towards relationship with them
[2008.03.12. 23:37:05] |SafaN| says: lets say we move it forward what can happen?
[2008.03.12. 23:37:23] PJayTycy says: they also won't prepare "better" than they are now, because I think they are preparing the best they can
[2008.03.12. 23:37:34] bT says: no, chuck whip this turn
[2008.03.12. 23:37:46] bT says: no spy
[2008.03.12. 23:37:57] |SafaN| says: how far is our scout?
[2008.03.12. 23:38:01] bT says: we should try to fool them diplomatically for a few turns
[2008.03.12. 23:38:09] |SafaN| says: it can hop in and out without being to obvious
[2008.03.12. 23:38:49] bT says: 4 turns from their border
[2008.03.12. 23:40:07] |SafaN| says: it makes no sense to move that chuck, it will be moved out when declaring war, so if we move it before declaring we lose a turn, if we move it after we don't know yet if we can surprise them
[2008.03.12. 23:42:08] bT says: ok, so not attack that spearman either?
[2008.03.12. 23:43:24] |SafaN| says: is that spearman a threat to any of our units?
[2008.03.12. 23:44:44] PJayTycy says: no, spying gives us intelligence at the cost of exposing our fear. Killing that spearman gives us nothing but exposes our war plans.
[2008.03.12. 23:46:52] bT says: spying also exposes war plans
[2008.03.12. 23:47:05] bT says: axe
[2008.03.12. 23:47:10] bT says: I vote for upgrading it
[2008.03.12. 23:47:19] bT says: to mac that is
[2008.03.12. 23:47:34] bT says: 3 maces at the spot will sew death
[2008.03.12. 23:47:53] bT says: and the guy also has 3 promotions
[2008.03.12. 23:48:15] bT says: your votes?
[2008.03.12. 23:48:47] PJayTycy says: upgrading axe : principally agree... what's the cost ?
[2008.03.12. 23:48:58] bT says: 125
[2008.03.12. 23:49:06] bT says: 1.25 turn income
[2008.03.12. 23:49:12] bT says: 1 turn at full commerce
[2008.03.12. 23:49:20] PJayTycy says: that's good
[2008.03.12. 23:49:28] PJayTycy says: will it heal from upgrading ?
[2008.03.12. 23:49:38] bT says: not sure, but promotion will help
[2008.03.12. 23:49:40] bT says: Safan?
[2008.03.12. 23:50:01] bT says: Impaler/
[2008.03.12. 23:50:02] |SafaN| says: that wounded axe?
[2008.03.12. 23:50:04] bT says: yes
[2008.03.12. 23:50:04] |SafaN| says: yes upgrade it
[2008.03.12. 23:51:03] |SafaN| says: i would go for full war economy now
[2008.03.12. 23:51:14] |SafaN| says: how many barbs in hunoi?
[2008.03.12. 23:51:20] bT says: 2 warriors
[2008.03.12. 23:51:22] bT says: not a threat
[2008.03.12. 23:51:38] |SafaN| says: no but it will cost a turn to attack it
[2008.03.12. 23:51:43] |SafaN| says: we need horses
[2008.03.12. 23:51:52] |SafaN| says: or ellies
[2008.03.12. 23:51:56] bT says: just one thing about upgrading
[2008.03.12. 23:52:03] bT says: GS will see our gold going down
[2008.03.12. 23:52:07] bT says: for no apparent reason
[2008.03.12. 23:52:13] |SafaN| says: full research
[2008.03.12. 23:52:15] |SafaN| says: why not?
[2008.03.12. 23:52:19] bT says: that will be even more
[2008.03.12. 23:52:26] bT says: 125+75 = -200
[2008.03.12. 23:52:48] bT says: perhaps let it heal and upgrade when healed? (hmmm)
[2008.03.12. 23:52:49] |SafaN| says: so they will do nothing different
[2008.03.12. 23:53:00] |SafaN| says: they have everything planned out already
[2008.03.12. 23:53:15] |SafaN| says: they wont adjust plans because we do someting strange
[2008.03.12. 23:54:05] PJayTycy says: upgrading that axe should be one of the last things to do before attacking
[2008.03.12. 23:54:07] |SafaN| says: the only thing we can hope for is that they planned to have 5 turns more to prepare, and that we are already ready in 2 turns to do our opening move
[2008.03.12. 23:54:30] PJayTycy says: ok, I have to go now...
[2008.03.12. 23:54:37] bT says: I tend to agree with pjay
[2008.03.12. 23:54:40] PJayTycy says: don't forget to whip in xin guangzhou
[2008.03.12. 23:54:46] bT says: I think they have miscalculated something
[2008.03.12. 23:55:07] PJayTycy says: see you later...
[2008.03.12. 23:55:22] PJayTycy says: post this log on the forums if you continue this evening...
[2008.03.12. 23:55:30] |SafaN| says: i have to go to
[2008.03.12. 23:55:31] |SafaN| says: bye
[0:12:06] bT says: we could also upgrade that archer near DongJing to chuko
[0:12:15] bT says: same with other archer
[0:12:50] bT says: that would be 2 extra chucks
[0:16:10] bT says: for a total of 8 chucks and 3 maces
[0:16:16] bT says: or even 9