Poly Fantasy Baseball Draft Thread

snoopy369 · February 22, 2008, 22:21

V2: Fist, Stui, jdd, Ninot
V3: Berz, Snoopy, Imran, gjram, Guy
LY: DD
Banana: Slowwhand

Not voting: EF

Deity Dude · February 22, 2008, 22:42

I thought Berz was th Commish

I think I'll just drop if the non-Commish is gonna refuse a vote of the players after the Commish said he would do such a vote.

snoopy369 · February 22, 2008, 22:44

Berz declared the vote we were having, and I am ignoring your usual BS of "my vote is losing so i'll try to get a revote". Voting for individual scoring options is impossible as I said before, it would never end up with a balanced scoring system except by random chance.

Deity Dude · February 22, 2008, 22:50

Snoopy just drop me from Berz's league - You do this crap all the time and I am really tired of it. You think because you have convinced yourself that you are right that everyone else's opinion doesn't matter. I have alot of other leagues I can join.

Adios

Deity Dude · February 22, 2008, 22:50

PS I don't really care about the rules - I care about the people I play with.

snoopy369 · February 22, 2008, 23:35

I think that the 9 others who voted matter more than you

I'm hardly the one trying to impose one opinion over all others...

I think you'll find you're the one who does this all the time - quits when he can't get his way.

I think EPW had said he wanted to play, right?

EPW · February 22, 2008, 23:40

Sure, I'll join.

Berzerker · February 23, 2008, 00:44

hang on guys

here is the situation: we have 1 vote nearing completion, but the vote is overwhelmingly in favor of sabremetrics and the vote is 5-4 in favor of Snoopy 3 over Snoopy 2

Once we know if 3 or 2 wins, then we can vote on adding categories. I already voted, I'd like to add 1B and K/9 to Snoopy 3

It will take 7 votes to add a category, and if we add more to offense than pitching, we'll take the pitching category with the most votes.

EPW, you're welcome to play but we'll need a 14th player and we got a few people around here who might be lagging a bit. We will go to 14 teams if someone else shows up. But you and the 14th player will be stuck picking 13 and 14 (sorry) since we already set a draft order and I dont need to add to my misery.

Let me see, Vlad, Apocalypse, Asleep at the wheel, dejon... Where are you guys?

Deity Dude · February 23, 2008, 01:40

Sorry Berz -

Snoop has a way of doing that to me.

I should have waited to hear from you as Commissioner. I just wonder why one member makes the ballot and then conducts the vote. I thought that would be the Commissioner's job.

I also thought I suggested, and you agreed (as commissioner), that we put all the categories up and vote from scratch as opposed to using Snoop's predetermined list and adding or subtracting from his list.

If not and we must start with a predetermined list, why not last year's categories? That would seem to make the most sense. Why should 1 person come in and post 3 lists (The Snoopy Ballot) that all players are forced to vote from.

I say post all categories and let the players vote on what they want without pressure of a Snoopy Ballot. If Snoopy's Ballot reflects the group's opinion then surely the group will vote that way. If not, then why should we use it.

If someone is against a majority vote I would like to know why they think they are more important than all of the players in the league (as I was accused of earlier because I wanted EVERYONE to vote on EVERY category).

What tends to happen in a league like this is whoever is most vocal attempts to set the debate and most people just go with the flow.

It's like our elections where we are forced to vote between Bush and Kerry and most people aren't happy with either choice but silently take a side.

Why not set up a list of ALL categories and let ALL people vote without pressure and let the chips fall where they may.

I am under the opinion that Runs, RBI and Ave will fall into the top 10 if ALL categories are voted on but I may be wrong). I am also under the opinion that

a) some of Snoopy's Ballot won't make the top 10

and

b) that is why he is resisting a vote on all categories.

Afterall, if the vote is fixed to Snoopy's Ballot ahead of time and we can only add or subtract from Snoopy's Ballot then we end up with Snoopy's Ballot +/-1. That seems like an attempt to control the outcome. I think the fairest would be to start from scratch - or if we must start with a ballot and add and subtract from it - we should add and subtract from last year's list. But, starting from scratch would be the fairest.

Everyone can make their case for why they think 3B are more important than RBI's or K's are more important than K/BB and so on.... but all I ask is let EVERYONE VOTE on EVERY CATEGORY as they see fit.

Anyways, you are the Commissioner and I will go with your ruling. Just as if I were in the Auction League, I would abide by it's Commissioner's rulings.

Berzerker · February 23, 2008, 02:39

DD

I just wonder why one member makes the ballot and then conducts the vote. I thought that would be the Commissioner's job.

I've always run my leagues ~democratically, anyone can propose changes and ask for votes. I take over when apathy leaves us nowhere to go

I also thought I suggested, and you agreed (as commissioner), that we put all the categories up and vote from scratch as opposed to using Snoop's predetermined list and adding or subtracting from his list.

If not and we must start with a predetermined list, why not last year's categories? That would seem to make the most sense. Why should 1 person come in and post 3 lists (The Snoopy Ballot) that all players are forced to vote from.

Scratch (or last years stats) is no longer an option, 9 out of 12 people voted for sabremetrics. Now its just which version, but Snoopy merely represents the sentiments of several people of like mind and upon my request he posted the stats used in sabremetrics and people started voting. They are welcome to make suggestions too, but it looks to me like the support for sabremetrics is real strong so I doubt we'll be able to add more than maybe 2 categories

Once we determine if its Snoopy 2 or 3 you can ask to add categories and have people vote. So far all we have is my vote to add 1B and K/9 to Snoopy 3. We have a few days before starting and I'm trying to track down people who played in the past so EPW can get in. Asleepatthewheel is around and I pmed vlad too.

Deity Dude · February 23, 2008, 08:24

Originally posted by Berzerker

Scratch (or last years stats) is no longer an option

Why was it an opton 6 hours ago then.

Originally posted by Berzerker

9 out of 12 people voted for sabremetrics. Now its just which version, but Snoopy merely represents the sentiments of several people of like mind and upon my request he posted the stats used in sabremetrics and people started voting. They are welcome to make suggestions too, but it looks to me like the support for sabremetrics is real strong so I doubt we'll be able to add more than maybe 2 categories

If that's the case why not just vote on ALL categories and see if that's true. I submit that Snoopy's categories were favored because they were posted first. If I had come up with 3 lists, posted them first and authoritatively had the self-confidence to tell everyone to vote for 1 of my 3 categories I am sure that I would have had 9 out of 12 people vote for 1 of my 3 categories. If your choices are the only ones on the ballot you win. For example, Hillary Clinton was the only person on the Michigan ballot - and guess what she won Michigan. I hardly believe that if all choices were on the ballot that she would have won, and even if she did I doubt it would have been by the same margin.

Plus there is debate about which ones within Snoopy's group should be accepted. That proves that there is no unison within Snoopy's ballot. I think most people are just going with the flow. That is why I ask for a listing of all categories and let all people vote. If they truly prefer 3B to RBI's we will see that in the vote, if not we will see that in the vote.

Why not just list all the categories and let the chips fall where they may. Why should we assume that 6 or 7 of Snoopy's are "in" and vote on 2 or 3 others. I think EVERYONE deserves a vote on ALL the categories. Why are we against letting people vote.

I'm not insisting on my categories - I am just asking for a up or down vote on each category. I don't think it is fair to have the categories pre-grouped by one person and then voted on in a block. Why is his grouping the best. Like I said earlier, if I were the most aggressive and posted 3 categories early and then took votes amongst the people who happened to be veiwing the thread that day before many people even read the post, the outcome would have been set in a different direction

Please tell me why we should assume certain categories are a given as opposed to giving EVERYONE an unbiased vote on ALL categories.

If Snoopy's are the most popular then a vote of all the categories should reflect that. If we don't have a vote of ALL the categories how will we ever know what people really wanted.

I don't think Snoopy or I should speak for the group. I think an open vote of all the categories should speak for the group.

I prefer not to vote on a pre-determined ballot by one person. I think in a group of equal members that ALL the members should vote on ALL the categories.

Stuie · February 23, 2008, 09:40

Originally posted by Deity Dude

What about runs and Batting Average. Aleadoff hitter who scores alot of runs is very important. And despite what I have read earlier "a walk is not as good as a hit". Lets see, runners on 2nd and 3rd 2 out - which do you prefer a single or a walk?

OBP covers batting average well enough for my money, but you're right: Where the hell are Runs?

Guynemer · February 23, 2008, 14:06

I like quality starts in particular; if there was just one thing I would change to Snoopy 3, I would include RBI.

Berzerker · February 23, 2008, 14:32

Berzerker votes 1B, K/9 to Snoopy 3
Guynemer votes RBIs to Snoopy 3
Stuie votes Runs to Snoopy 2 (and Snoopy 3 I assume)

We're starting the draft this coming week (maybe Tuesday) so vote

And we will be on a clock - a 12 hour clock - when we do start. We gotta average a round a day and there is no way in hell I'm letting people waste an entire day.

SlowwHand · February 23, 2008, 16:21

RBI's are important.

Berzerker · February 23, 2008, 16:32

DD

Why was it an opton 6 hours ago then.

Its always an option, but by that time we had 7+ people voting for Snoopy 2 or 3 - and that ongoing valid vote means we're switching to a new set of stats. If you wanna add onto that, state your case and ask people to vote. If you want last years stats, ask people to vote.

If that's the case why not just vote on ALL categories and see if that's true.

If you wanna ask people to vote on all categories, ask them. I already explained this, no one (but you?) expressed support for last years stats. We'd be using those stats if several people hadn't complained, they wanna go with sabremetrics and they proposed a set of stats to be used and 9 people have already expressed support for their stats. What do you want me to do, tell them to **** off because we're using last years stats?

I submit that Snoopy's categories were favored because they were posted first.

They weren't first, last years stats were posted first - and so what? They did a good job selling their candidate, they even convinced me. You haven't even proposed a set of stats and you're complaining because they did?

If I had come up with 3 lists, posted them first and authoritatively had the self-confidence to tell everyone to vote for 1 of my 3 categories I am sure that I would have had 9 out of 12 people vote for 1 of my 3 categories.

But you didn't, it aint my fault if you dont sell your idea.

Plus there is debate about which ones within Snoopy's group should be accepted. That proves that there is no unison within Snoopy's ballot.

And we're voting on that, two versions have 5 and 4 votes - once we establish the winner we're going with it. If people wanna add cats, they can go right ahead and make a proposal. You haven't even done that...

Why not just list all the categories and let the chips fall where they may. Why should we assume that 6 or 7 of Snoopy's are "in" and vote on 2 or 3 others. I think EVERYONE deserves a vote on ALL the categories. Why are we against letting people vote.

9 people have voted for sabremetrics. You want me to suspend that vote because you want a vote on all categories? Where do you keep getting this idea that people cant vote for what they want?

I am just asking for a up or down vote on each category.

Then vote.

I don't think it is fair to have the categories pre-grouped by one person and then voted on in a block.

Thats the way we've always done it, the commish sets up the basic stats and then people provide their ideas and the stats get modified to reflect the will of the managers.

I don't think Snoopy or I should speak for the group. I think an open vote of all the categories should speak for the group.

He doesn't, you need to read the thread before you keep laying this at his feet. He was one of several people who wanted to go with sabremetrics, I asked them to post their ideas and they did, and people started voting on the version they liked best. If you like one of those versions with some tweaking, say so.

I prefer not to vote on a pre-determined ballot by one person. I think in a group of equal members that ALL the members should vote on ALL the categories.

So we have 1 vote for starting all over, sell your idea now.

Berzerker · February 23, 2008, 17:49

Berzerker votes 1B, K/9 to Snoopy 3
Guynemer votes RBIs to Snoopy 3
Stuie votes Runs to Snoopy 2 (and Snoopy 3 I assume)
Slowhand votes RBIs ( I assume you're flexible wrt Snoopy 2 or 3?)

SlowwHand · February 23, 2008, 17:52

Yeah, I'm real easy.

Berzerker · February 23, 2008, 17:58

what is it with libertarians?

and I thought I'd be avoiding a big hassle by being agreeable to the sabremetric boys

ok, I've edited the stat cats at yahoo to reflect Snoopy 3 for now. And we need to start the draft by next weekend at the latest.

I opened the league up to 14 people so EPW can join and do research, Vlad is usually game so I sent him a pm. Tuber got one too

Deity Dude · February 23, 2008, 18:50

I don't think I am going to enjoy this league very much so EPW can take my place.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

snoopy369 · February 23, 2008, 18:55

I vote add nothing

What's going to be the criteria to a stat getting added, 6 votes to add it, 7?

Berzerker · February 23, 2008, 19:14

ok DD

EPW is in as our 12th - and he gets to pick first

Berzerker votes 1B, K/9 to Snoopy 3
Guynemer votes RBIs to Snoopy 3
Stuie votes Runs to Snoopy 2 (and Snoopy 3 I assume)
Slowhand votes RBIs ( I assume you're flexible wrt Snoopy 2 or 3?)
Snoopy votes Snoopy 3 as is

we still need 7 people to vote

What's going to be the criteria to a stat getting added, 6 votes to add it, 7?

I'm inclined to go with 6 since Slow is flexible, ie 6 out of 11 is a majority.

Ninot · February 23, 2008, 23:04

Can I vote for system 3 minus 3b?

SlowwHand · February 23, 2008, 23:09

Originally posted by Berzerker

I'm inclined to go with 6 given since Slow is flexible, ie 6 out of 11 is a majority.

Yeah, I'm the camp whore.

Berzerker · February 24, 2008, 00:28

Berzerker votes 1B, K/9 to Snoopy 3
Guynemer votes RBIs to Snoopy 3
Stuie votes Runs to Snoopy 2 (and Snoopy 3 I assume)
Slowhand votes RBIs ( I assume you're flexible wrt Snoopy 2 or 3?)
Snoopy votes Snoopy 3 as is
Ninot votes Snoopy 3 without 3B (changed your original vote for 2?)

SlowwHand · February 24, 2008, 00:36

Yeah, that sounds good to me.

Ninot · February 24, 2008, 01:44

Originally posted by Berzerker
Ninot votes Snoopy 3 without 3B (changed your original vote for 2?)

I go with the majority chosen system, just without 3B. I think most voted for 3?

Heraclitus · February 24, 2008, 02:21

WTF is Baseball?

Fistandantilus · February 24, 2008, 06:51

Assuming Snoopy 3 is the winner I support:
- Add RBIs
- Remove 3b

Berzerker · February 24, 2008, 12:02

Berzerker votes 1B, K/9 to Snoopy 3
Guynemer votes RBIs to Snoopy 3
Stuie votes Runs to Snoopy 2 (and Snoopy 3 I assume)
Slowhand votes RBIs ( I assume you're flexible wrt Snoopy 2 or 3?)
Snoopy votes Snoopy 3 as is
Ninot votes Snoopy 3 without 3B (changed your original vote for 2?)
Fistandantilus votes Snoopy 3 add RBIs and minus 3B

thats 7 voters with 3 people wanting RBIs added to Snoopy 3

we need votes from

Imran (hates RBIs

)
EmpFab
Jdd
Ramsey
EPW

Technically adding RBIs should require 7 votes since I count(ed) Slow as a yes vote for all suggestions and he actually did vote for RBIs. But hell, 6 people is enough and I'll give em my vote if they make 6.