Sexsomnia

[Wezil]

TORONTO - Prosecutors say a man who was acquitted of sexually assaulting a woman because he was in a deep sleep at the time should be found mentally ill.

Crown lawyer Kimberley Crosbie is urging Ontario's highest court to classify Jan Luedecke and others like him as a danger to society in order to protect future victims.

Luedecke was found not guilty of the 2003 assault after the judge decided he was in such a deep sleep he could not have formed the intent to commit the assault - the so-called "sexsomnia" defence.

Prosecutors want the Ontario Court of Appeal to decide if Luedecke is a danger to society and, if so, what conditions - including medication - should be placed on him.

Luedecke's lawyers say there's no grounds for the court to impose any sanctions on their client.

Sexsomnia is a form of parasomnia, or sleep disorder, that's believed to affect about three out of 100 people.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/20...832659-cp.html

What a terrible condition. You'd get lots of sex but would you remember any of it?

[b etor]

[Wezil]

Do you suffer b etor?

[LordShiva]

Will Wezil claim postsomnia for posting 3 threads in one day?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by LordShiva
Will Wezil claim postsomnia for posting 3 threads in one day?

What were the three?

This one.
Punching lawyers.
and...

[LordShiva]

Teh UN one.

[Wezil]

False accusations.

[LordShiva]

Oh

[Wezil]

Originally posted by LordShiva
Teh UN one.

Check the date.

Apologise accordingly.

[LordShiva]

Necrophiling recent threads

Necrophiling several-year-old threads

[Wezil]

That doesn't look like an apology.

[b etor]

Originally posted by Wezil
Do you suffer b etor?

oh no way. i remember eeeeeeeverything.


but i feel for the dude.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Wezil
That doesn't look like an apology.

Check post #8.

Apologise accordingly.

[Wezil]

"Oh, I'm embarrassed" is a recognition of your mistake not an apology for the false accusation.

[LordShiva]

You should feel honoured for having received even that much

[Wezil]

I'll move on since you've fouled my thread enough with these baseless accusations.

The UN thread was resurrected b/c the UN supporters went into hiding the 1st time (how Un-ish). They're still hiding.

On topic - So how about that defence? I would be more skeptical if I hadn't experienced sleep walking first hand.

[LordShiva]

It's about as convincing as teh Chewbaca defense

[Wezil]

parasomnia has been a defence here for many years now (a case going back to the 80's as I recall). I've never heard of sexsomnia before but I can see where it comes from.

The parasomnia precedent was a guy that drove across town and killed his mother-in-law (with a knife?) then drove home and went back to bed. He claimed he was essentially "sleep-walking" and didn't remember a thing. Dr's backed this possibility up and he was acquitted as he obviously couldn't have formed the requisite intent if this was true.

[Krill]

If the politicos got their way the law would probably place anyone with this condition in medium secure units or higher...

[Wezil]

I wouldn't want to share a "secure unit" with someone that suffers this condition.

[Wezil]

A woman attacked by a Toronto landscaper was visibly upset after the Court of Appeal upheld his acquittal yesterday because of a sleep disorder known as sexsomnia.

But Ontario's highest court reserved judgment on the more explosive issue of whether sexsomia should be declared a mental illness in this case.

"I have never been out for revenge. I believe in accountability and consequences for actions and to date he has not faced any of that," the 37-year-old woman known as L.O. said outside court after the appeal of her assailant Jan Luedecke was heard. "He knows what he did. I know what he did. I could be here until tomorrow telling you how this has affected me (adversely)," the emotional woman told reporters.

The Crown lost its appeal to have a new trial ordered for Luedecke, 35. His defence was that he suffered from sexsomnia, a form of a sleep disorder, on July 3, 2003, when he was drunk, tired and asleep on a couch beside L.O. at a party.

When L.O. awoke, Luedecke was having sex with her. Justice Russell Otter exonerated Luedecke, saying he had been so asleep that he couldn't form the intent to commit the sexual assault.

But Crown attorney Kimberley Crosbie argued that the court should designate sexsomnia as a form of mental illness in this case and change the verdict from not guilty to not criminally responsible due to mental disorder.

If the appeal court agrees with Crosbie, then Luedecke will be subject to mental health authorities, the Ontario Review Board.

The ORB could impose conditions on him, such as taking medications, to ensure he sleeps properly and doesn't pose a risk in order to protect future, potential victims, court heard.

Luedecke's lawyer Frank Addario said his client had "sleep sex" with four girlfriends and Addario's opposed "the labelling of a sexsomnia as a mental disorder. It comes back to the stigma."

"There would be no stigma for mental illness on a non-volitional act," said Justice Susan Lang. "He's not guilty of anything -- we all accept that," said Justice David Doherty. "Why can't we err on the side of finding him NCR ... the remedy could be tailored."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/20...34840-sun.html

[Krill]

So if he isn't responsible becasue he can't control it, and there is a course of medication that is able to stop the "illness" 100% of the time with negligable side effects (defined as anything that doesn't forshorten his life expectancy; affecting quality of life and he should still go on the meds) then why isn't it already in use? That should be gross negligence on the part of his psychiatrist

[Krill]

And if there isn't a course of medication then he should be in a medium secure unit so he can't "attack" the general population.

[DinoDoc]

Wow! The twinkie defense is still working. I can't believe it.

[Wezil]

Krill - Good questions. here is a better article on the issue which I think provides some of the answers (near the end).

Crown prosecutors were at the Ontario Court of Appeal on Thursday, trying to designate sexsomnia as a mental illness after a man was cleared of sexual assault due to the rare sleep aberration.

The designation would allow courts to impose conditions on offenders such as Jan Luedecke, who claimed to be in a dissociative sleepwalking state when he sexually assaulted a woman after a party in 2003.

Crown prosecutor Kimberley Crosbie on Thursday sought to have Luedecke deemed mentally ill and forced to appear before the Ontario Review Board, which reviews cases where an offender is found not criminally responsible because of mental disorder.

The three judges hearing the case reserved decision. If Luedecke appeared before the board, it could choose to send him to hospital, back into the community with conditions, or discharge him altogether.

"I think that's the overarching concern here, the protection of the public," said Crosbie. "What we're concerned about is that nothing like this happens again."

Luedecke alleges that during a party at a Toronto home in 2003, he got drunk and fell asleep on a couch.

Continue Article

His lawyers maintained that while Luedecke was in a dissociative sleepwalking state, he went over to a woman who was sleeping on an adjacent couch, lifted up her skirt, put on a condom and began sexual intercourse with her.

She woke up and asked what he was doing, and who he was. He told her his name and got up.

The woman ran to the washroom, after which she came back and saw Luedecke standing in the middle of the room. She left to seek medical attention and the authorities were called.

During the trial, his defence called Toronto psychiatry professor Colin Shapiro, an expert on the condition known as sexsomnia. Shapiro testified that Luedecke was in a dissociative state when the incident occurred and didn't realize what he was doing.

Shapiro said that it is possible to engage in complex abnormal behaviours during that state.

The Crown never presented expert evidence to counter the argument and Judge Russell Otter found that Luedecke was in a sleepwalking state at the time.

The issue then became whether the condition was caused by a mental disorder or something else.

If it was a mental condition, Luedecke would have been subject to a number of conditions, including medication or indeterminate detention.

But Otter relied on the evidence of Shapiro, who said sleepwalking does not arise from a mental illness, and Luedecke was released.

"The public should understand that these cases, though rare, are documented in the medical literature," Frank Addario, Luedecke's lawyer, said outside the court Thursday.

"The finding at trial, which is not challenged on appeal, was that it wasn't volitional, it wasn't a deliberate choice that he made, that it was something that was done while he was unconscious."

Crosbie has asked the appeal court to enter a new conviction or order a new trial, which is unlikely barring a significant error in the law.

Addario suggested instead that the appeal court must decide whether the trial judge erred while deciding whether Luedecke was affected by a sleep or a mental disorder.

"If it's just a sleep disorder and it's unlikely to re-occur, then it's not a mental disorder and he doesn't need hospitalization and the state won't be able to follow him around."

Sanjeev Anand of the faculty of law at the University of Alberta told CBC News that the case could be important because it will shine light on Shapiro's contention that sexsomnia is not a mental condition.

Anand said if a new trial is ordered, Crown prosecutors could present evidence from psychiatrists who disagree with Shapiro.

"What could happen as a result of this overall case is that it ends up being a wakeup call to Crown prosecutors that the psychiatric evidence presented by Dr. Shapiro may not in fact be the orthodox view of psychiatry."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...ml#skip300x250

[Wezil]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Wow! The twinkie defense is still working. I can't believe it.

I heard some numbers on this type of defence this morning. Iirc, it has been used 7 times in the last 13 years. Successful twice.

It's obviously a high bar to get over.

I have sleepwalked in the past so as I say I can at least understand the defence w/o dismissing it outright. That said, I know little about things medical so I have no idea if the condition can really be this bad but I would not be surprised.

[DinoDoc]

Whoever the Crown had prosecuting this case seems like they should be fired IMO if the last article you posted is accurate. Why would they not present any evidence to refute the only defense put foward by the rapist?

[Elok]

At least his sexsomniac side knew to put on a rubber.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Whoever the Crown had prosecuting this case seems like they should be fired IMO if the last article you posted is accurate. Why would they not present any evidence to refute the only defense put foward by the rapist?

I found that rather odd as well.

[Krill]

First of all check to see what the refutation was to the other 11 uses of this defence. I'm not sure if there is/can be one that doesn't use medical literature contrary to what teh defence used.