PROJECT: Playtest (Thread No. 6)

[CoreCore]

I do not see my attached Savegame, so i will try again.

[CoreCore]

Hi again!

here's another savegame that does the same thing, i thought i'd start over and see what happens, maybe i'm abusing my peasants too much??

Any ways, same setup here's the crash.txt file:

Version 2008-10-08
0x00495c2b [?RiotCasualties@CityData@@QAEXXZ + 0xab]
0x0048b3a5 [?BeginTurn@CityData@@QAE_NXZ + 0x525]
0x004e16cf [?BeginTurnCity@UnitData@@QAEXABVUnit@@AAVUnitDynam icArray@@@Z + 0xf]
0x004d9f0d [?BeginTurnCity@Unit@@QAEXAAVUnitDynamicArray@@@Z + 0x2d]
0x0049791d [?GEVHookCallback@CityBeginTurnEvent@@EAE?AW4GAME_E VENT_HOOK_DISPOSITION@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventA rgList@@@Z + 0x4d]
0x0057b347 [?Activate@GameEventHook@@QBE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@PA VGameEventArgList@@HAAH@Z + 0x37]
0x0057bd08 [?ActivateHook@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@HAAH@Z + 0x28]
0x00579e2d [?Process@GameEvent@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@XZ + 0x2d]
0x0057b780 [?AddEvent@GameEventManager@@QAA?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@ @W4GAME_EVENT_INSERT@@W4GAME_EVENT@@ZZ + 0xd0]
0x00432a35 [?dh_endTurn@@YAXPAVDQAction@@PAVSequence@@W4DHEXEC UTE@@@Z + 0x35]
0x0042b103 [?HandleNextAction@Director@@QAEXXZ + 0xc3]
0x0040c26b [?Process@CivApp@@QAEHXZ + 0x11b]
0x00406f84 [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x394]
0x004069e5 [WinMain@16 + 0x65]
0x00800bdc [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134]
0x7c817067 [__onexitbegin + 0x7be4fa0f]

And the savegame:

[CoreCore]

Hope this helps solve the crashes.

Version 2008-10-08
0x00495c2b [?RiotCasualties@CityData@@QAEXXZ + 0xab]
0x0048b3a5 [?BeginTurn@CityData@@QAE_NXZ + 0x525]
0x004e16cf [?BeginTurnCity@UnitData@@QAEXABVUnit@@AAVUnitDynam icArray@@@Z + 0xf]
0x004d9f0d [?BeginTurnCity@Unit@@QAEXAAVUnitDynamicArray@@@Z + 0x2d]
0x0049791d [?GEVHookCallback@CityBeginTurnEvent@@EAE?AW4GAME_E VENT_HOOK_DISPOSITION@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventA rgList@@@Z + 0x4d]
0x0057b347 [?Activate@GameEventHook@@QBE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@PA VGameEventArgList@@HAAH@Z + 0x37]
0x0057bd08 [?ActivateHook@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@HAAH@Z + 0x28]
0x00579e2d [?Process@GameEvent@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@XZ + 0x2d]
0x0057b780 [?AddEvent@GameEventManager@@QAA?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@ @W4GAME_EVENT_INSERT@@W4GAME_EVENT@@ZZ + 0xd0]
0x00432a35 [?dh_endTurn@@YAXPAVDQAction@@PAVSequence@@W4DHEXEC UTE@@@Z + 0x35]
0x0042b103 [?HandleNextAction@Director@@QAEXXZ + 0xc3]
0x0040c26b [?Process@CivApp@@QAEHXZ + 0x11b]
0x00406f84 [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x394]
0x004069e5 [WinMain@16 + 0x65]
0x00800bdc [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134]
0x7c817067 [__onexitbegin + 0x7be4fa0f]

[CoreCore]

Okay, i tried not changing any of the user settable options to see how long it can play, i made it to 1410AD, that was fun, but it ended in a handled error pop-up which re-loading the savegame fails on pressing end-of-turn.

all in a zip file, savegame, userprofile.txt, and SLIC Error pop-up:

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by CoreCore
Okay, i tried not changing any of the user settable options to see how long it can play, i made it to 1410AD, that was fun, but it ended in a handled error pop-up which re-loading the savegame fails on pressing end-of-turn.

You can keep clicking "yes" on the pop-up to continue the game, or you can disable those messages by going to the "options" menu at the top > "advanced" and disabling "slic event debug messages".

BTW you have lots of gold, why not upgrade some old units?

[Maquiladora]

BTW I kind of found a bug in the upgrade feature. If you have a unit in an army that cannot be upgraded with a unit that can be upgraded, the upgrade button won't show.

You just have to ungroup the units from the army that can't be upgraded, to upgrade the army all as one. Or you can obviously ungroup the individual units you want to upgrade.

For example your army has 6 Infantryman and 1 Machine Gunner and you want to upgrade the 6 Infantryman to Machine Gunners. The upgrade button wouldn't appear because you can't upgrade the 1 Machine Gunner any further (at the moment), so you would have to ungroup it from the army.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Maquiladora

I just tried lots of maps using const.txt and map.txt (although it appears to be the same) from the original game in the playtest and the problems are the same, so it suggests something has changed internally that is affecting the map generator.

Well I think I found how to fix the big areas of hills.

I altered MAP_BUMP_SIZE for each island/continent setting in map.txt. Increasing this number seems to reduce the amount of hills being generated.

It seems to have little effect on mountains though, but I think this is more controlled by the const.txt values, like the chance of a mountain chain spreading etc.

When you see the original 1.11 maps in-game, the hills/mountain regions are mostly mountains, surrounded by a few hills, so this is what I'll try to do with the new settings.

It'll take me a while though because I have to check the hills on every island/continent setting, then each of those settings with every ocean/land setting. I have no idea if the other sliders have any effect, but I suspect not on hilly terrain at least because it can appear anywhere.

[CoreCore]

@Maquiladora: Okay, i will try to press "yes" and see what occurs then let the forum know. I thought i had pressed "yes" repeatedly without success several times, but i will try it again. And i'm very glad you found the upgrade issue because i was wondering about it.

Thanks!
Cor'e =)

[Maquiladora]

OK I tried to fix the mass of hills/mountains on some map settings. I changed a few entries of MAP_BUMP_SIZE, all the changes are marked for each map size.

[CoreCore]

I've got a really huge map going, and each turn is like a minute with 32 players, it's a guess, but i'm guessing the AI sees everything without a fog-of-war.

Why does a bigger map have a longer the turn cycle? Is it because the AI has no Fog-of-War?

TIA! =)

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by CoreCore

Why does a bigger map have a longer the turn cycle?

Probably because there's a lot more cities and units for the AI to manage.

[CoreCore]

I've disabled "SLIC event debug messages" and that worked for the game issue where i was seeing loads of SLIC esee error pop-ups.

I imagine the turn cycles will become longer as cities are built, but right now it's the first 20 turns.

I'm getting CTDs and i think there is a missing error handling on gold for cities or nation that is the reason for the CTDs, i'm looking at it and will submit a savegame if i can always reproduce it, right now it is still able to recover after each CTD.

New notion: The CTDs i'm experiencing may actually be related to barbarian take-over of my cities when i miss-manage cities, that would com right after the out-of-gold issue and may be the CTDs...

This issue i think i related to the first 3 savegames i uploaded above. The 4th (last) one i uploaded above seems to have worked under more "normal" options than the first 3, and was aided by disabling the SLIC errors.

[cap601]

I'm using the latest playtest and run into a problem where the game freezes during the AI turns. In
this save the game freezes for me during the light blue player's turn with the program taking up 50% of the processor (I'm using a dual core machine). I have had this problem before but reloading the game fixed it. If it's any use I'm playing on Vista.

I've also found an exploit in that building an Urban Planner costs 1 population but settling it grants 3 population.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by cap601
I'm using the latest playtest and run into a problem where the game freezes during the AI turns. In
this save the game freezes for me during the light blue player's turn with the program taking up 50% of the processor (I'm using a dual core machine). I have had this problem before but reloading the game fixed it. If it's any use I'm playing on Vista.

Same problem for me. I tried watching player 6 (light blue) but it freezes too.

BTW if you want to get rid of the hilly maps, try the map.txt I attached a couple of posts before.

I've also found an exploit in that building an Urban Planner costs 1 population but settling it grants 3 population.

I guess they (the designers) thought that the map would be pretty crowded by the modern/post-modern age, so there's not many times to use them, and also to make the cities useful before the game ends.

I thought it strange that the Sea Engineer came later than the Urban Planner but didn't do the same things with sea cities, so I changed it in my game.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by cap601
I'm using the latest playtest and run into a problem where the game freezes during the AI turns. In
this save the game freezes for me during the light blue player's turn with the program taking up 50% of the processor (I'm using a dual core machine). I have had this problem before but reloading the game fixed it. If it's any use I'm playing on Vista.

BTW the economic ranking graph is quite shocking in that game. You have lots of wonders but still the AI has far too few city improvements. In one AI's capital they've built only 3 buildings (City Walls, Ballista Towers and Granary) in 360 turns.

Obviously all their time was spent on units since they are running 80% unit support.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by CoreCore
I have attached a saved game that when loaded cannot get to the next turn, it seems to always CTD (Crash to Desktop).

I fixed that.

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Obviously all their time was spent on units since they are running 80% unit support.

Well, the AI needs a good defense. So how many units does the AI need as garrison? Of course, needless to say that the AI would build less units if you just change the garrison settings.

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

Well, the AI needs a good defense. So how many units does the AI need as garrison? Of course, needless to say that the AI would build less units if you just change the garrison settings.

-Martin

Do cities produce garrison units specifically for other cities? Because when I used this order in BuildListSequences.txt for every build list sequence (to test it):

  BuildListElement { GarrisonUnitBuildList }
  BuildListElement { BuildingBuildList BUILDING_BUILD_LIST_ESSENTIAL }
  BuildListElement { AllUnitBuildList }

The AI city would first build enough garrison for itself (usually 2-4 units), then always build from my "essential" list. When it reached the end of the "essential" list, it would then start on "AllUnitBuildList", by building extra units for attack or defence outside cities, or clerics and slavers etc.

It would seem then that it's the "AllUnitBuildList" that has too high a priority, too high in fact that they never finish it so they can start building city improvements.

I saw something else strange. The AI doesn't maximise it's wages slider at all. When the AI had built all the happiness buildings and it's lowest city happiness was 78, it still left the wages slider on the far right. I guess to try and maximise food even further by lowering crime with higher happiness?

I tried changing the delta settings in strategies.txt but it had no effect apparently.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Do cities produce garrison units specifically for other cities?

There is something for it in the code, but I don't know whether it works.

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Because when I used this order in BuildListSequences.txt for every build list sequence (to test it):

  BuildListElement { GarrisonUnitBuildList }
  BuildListElement { BuildingBuildList BUILDING_BUILD_LIST_ESSENTIAL }
  BuildListElement { AllUnitBuildList }

The AI city would first build enough garrison for itself (usually 2-4 units), then always build from my "essential" list. When it reached the end of the "essential" list, it would then start on "AllUnitBuildList", by building extra units for attack or defence outside cities, or clerics and slavers etc.

It would seem then that it's the "AllUnitBuildList" that has too high a priority, too high in fact that they never finish it so they can start building city improvements.

Actually, it is more difficult, first of all there is a bug with the defense level. The defense level is a hard-encoded fixed number, that is compared with the army strength of your enemies. The army strength depends of the number of enemies you have contact with, the number of their cities and how much garrison units are there. So you are pretty fast at above the enemy strength that sets your civilization onto maximum defense. This means that you have to build 9 garrison units in each of your cities, if the GarrisonUnitBuildList is the first build element in your build list.

Building 9 units takes a long time, and if you discover new techs, you have to replace your units, which takes again time.

Unfortunately, I don't have a better idea how to calculate the defense level.

For the rest in your build list the AI should build all the buildings if the AI has the advances and then the AllUnitBuildList stuff.

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

Building 9 units takes a long time, and if you discover new techs, you have to replace your units, which takes again time.

When I tested with 2 units (1 defence, 1 ranged) for every garrison level, I saw the AI would still garrison it's most threatened cities with 12 units when needed.

The AI can't garrison every city with 9 units anyway, the build and support costs are huge, and can probably never be met if they upgrade units constantly too. We would have to lower all unit build and support costs or give free support for units in cities. Or increase production available too.

So do we make it possible to defend every city with 6-12 units, and/or do we make it harder for the human to make surprise attacks on weakly defended cities. Like in Ages of Man or Cradle, the AI's on your continent are really hard to make peace with, so they're always attacking you anyway.

[CoreCore]

Hi Martin, I would be glad to playtest the fix, would you like me to? I have been getting other CTDs and i would guess it might be a waste of time to post them if they are also resolved by this fix.

Hi Maquiladora , i have some interest in the random generation of terrain fixes you are working on, my issue is that the map is getting covered with many non-connecting small snake-like oceans. I actually have not seen a river!

I would like to eliminate this issue and instead see lake-like "oceans", perhaps feed into by rivers. And I would like to see rivers start at hills and/or mountains, and if possible end in swamps, lakes, oceans.

Is this a plan already in progress? How do i see the whole map without fog-of-war? how do i make "rules" about terrain layout?

TIA! =)

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by CoreCore

my issue is that the map is getting covered with many non-connecting small snake-like oceans. I actually have not seen a river!

If you want the oceans to connect more then increase the ocean, and perhaps increase the islands on the map settings.

I would like to eliminate this issue and instead see lake-like "oceans", perhaps feed into by rivers. And I would like to see rivers start at hills and/or mountains, and if possible end in swamps, lakes, oceans.

You can't specify where rivers start and end, at least not in the text files. You would have to modify the source code for that.

Is this a plan already in progress?

No. The only terrain fix I made was to try and eliminate the big continents and islands full of hills, to make the maps at least more playable again.

How do i see the whole map without fog-of-war?

When you're starting the game select "Launch Editor", then in the editor press the "eye" button to reveal the whole map.

how do i make "rules" about terrain layout?

You can edit the general map rules (amount of forest, jungle, rivers etc) in const.txt in ...\ctp2_data\default\gamedata folder.

Or you can edit map.txt (in the same folder) like I did, there you can change continents, islands etc.

[leinis74]

Dear All,

we tried to play a MP Game via Internet with the AE but unfortunately it didn't work to play, because he who enter to the game of the "creator" will cut off always at this moment as the game data will transmit.
Maybe somebody could help us, wherefore you could find our crash.txt below.

Version 2008-10-07 0x0043b1ca [?PostProcessTile@TiledMap@@QAEXAAVMapPoint@@PAVTil eInfo@@H@Z + 0x3fa] 0x0043b442 [?PostProcessMap@TiledMap@@QAEXH@Z + 0x92] 0x006213e4 [?Unpacketize@NetInfo@@UAEXGPAEG@Z + 0x334] 0x0062b6ea [?PacketReady@Network@@UAEXHPAEH@Z + 0x8a] 0x006383ba [?Idle@NetThread@@UAE?AW4NET_ERR@@XZ + 0x1aa] 0x0062a064 [?Process@Network@@QAEXXZ + 0x1f4] 0x0040c255 [?Process@CivApp@@QAEHXZ + 0x105] 0x00406f84 [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x394] 0x004069e5 [WinMain@16 + 0x65] 0x00800bdc [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134] 0x7c816d4f [__onexitbegin + 0x7be4f6f7]

[Martin Gühmann]

With the forum update, we replaced also our download section therefore the old Apolyton Edition links that pointed to our old download area are invalid. Here is the new link:

http://apolyton.net/directory/jump/c...oject-303/5288

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

I got a CTD (first in a long time!) while adding two labourers then removing them quickly.

Version 2008-10-08
  0x00425008  [?DrawLow565@Sprite@@IAEXPAGHHHHGGG@Z + 0x88]
  0x0041b78f  [?DrawDirect@Sprite@@UAEXPAVaui_Surface@@HHHNFGG@Z + 0x1cf]
  0x0041a0f4  [?DrawDirect@GoodSpriteGroup@@QAEXPAVaui_Surface@@W4GOODACTION@@HHHHNGGG@Z + 0x44]
  0x00411cc7  [?DrawDirect@GoodActor@@QAEXPAVaui_Surface@@HHN@Z + 0x47]
  0x00436c7b  [?DrawAGood@ResourceMap@@SAHPAVaui_Surface@@ABVMapPoint@@PAX@Z + 0xfb]
  0x00436f52  [?DrawResourceMapThing@ResourceMap@@QAEHPAVaui_Surface@@P6AH0ABVMapPoint@@PAX@Z@Z + 0x82]
  0x0043701f  [?DrawSprites@ResourceMap@@QAEHPAVaui_Surface@@PAUtagRECT@@@Z + 0x8f]
  0x00436565  [?DrawSurface@ResourceMap@@QAEHXZ + 0x1d5]
  0x0074a43c  [?Update@CityWindow@@QAEXXZ + 0x6cc]
  0x0074b474  [?WorkerSpinnerCallback@CityWindow@@SAXPAVaui_Control@@IIPAX@Z + 0xf4]
  0x006ce96f  [?ActionCallback@ctp2_Spinner@@SAXPAVaui_Control@@IIPAX@Z + 0x2f]
  0x00663dc1  [?RepositionThumb@aui_Ranger@@IAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@H@Z + 0x231]
  0x00664c15  [?RangerButtonActionCallback@@YAXPAVaui_Control@@IIPAX@Z + 0xe5]
  0x00645957  [?MouseLGrabInside@aui_Button@@MAEXPAUaui_MouseEvent@@@Z + 0x107]
  0x006c87c8  [?MouseLGrabInside@ctp2_Button@@UAEXPAUaui_MouseEvent@@@Z + 0x18]
  0x006688ee  [?MouseDispatch@aui_Region@@QAEXPAUaui_MouseEvent@@H@Z + 0xa1e]
  0x00666685  [?HandleMouseEvent@aui_Region@@QAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@PAUaui_MouseEvent@@H@Z + 0x115]
  0x006665f8  [?HandleMouseEvent@aui_Region@@QAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@PAUaui_MouseEvent@@H@Z + 0x88]
  0x00675539  [?HandleMouseEvents@aui_UI@@QAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@HPAUaui_MouseEvent@@@Z + 0x99]
  0x00675b73  [?Process@aui_UI@@UAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@XZ + 0x23]
  0x0040be43  [?ProcessUI@CivApp@@AAEHIAAI@Z + 0x1b3]
  0x0040c26b  [?Process@CivApp@@QAEHXZ + 0x11b]
  0x00406f84  [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x394]
  0x004069e5  [WinMain@16 + 0x65]
  0x00800bdc  [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134]
  0x7c817067  [__onexitbegin + 0x7be4fa0f]

I was playing my Red Front scenario, so this was after changing specialists in a lot of cities (around 30) beforehand.

[Protra3211]

Been playing the newest play test and so far the AI military has been the best I have seen it since the frenzy mod. I have played two short tests around 300 turns that I have not finished yet- at the highest level.In one game I was able to capture two AI cites near my border.Its always the case that in the early part of the game you can beat out at least one civilization.However the AI had joined two 5 stacks together and moved other units in and stacked as well.Then within 3 turns was able to recapture the city and defend it self. Well done Martin Guhman.In the other game by 121 turns in the AI near my border already had 11 cities and 76 units.The AI is doing a good job of spacing cities and building a good defensive force.

[andul]

I started recently to play CTP2 again. I installed the latest playtest version 907.
First of all I find its quite impressive that somebody still puts such a lot of effort in this game.

After several rounds it started to become very instable. After two or three rounds the game keeps crashing. It happens alway during the AI makes it moves. Furthermore I have the impression it happens more frequent if there are popup messages like "X Y stops war" etc. After reloading the same save game sometimes after pressing EndTurn it goes to the next turn, sometimes not.
I use the german version, but no additional mode.
I attach one of the save games and several other files.

[Maquiladora]

I attach one of the save games and several other files.

Obviously it seems there is a problem with the "revolting cities lose population" rule. Perhaps Martin will take a look at it (or not ), I would avoid that rule for the moment though.

[Martin Gühmann]

(or not )

You got that right , because I have already fixed it. So the fix will ship withe the next version of the Apolyton Edition. Until then avoiding that option is the way to go.

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

You got that right , because I have already fixed it. So the fix will ship withe the next version of the Apolyton Edition. Until then avoiding that option is the way to go.

-Martin

Ah yes, silly me.

[Maquiladora]

So I made some changes to restore the original game, even slightly unbalanced it should remain unmodified. Everything else can then be kept neatly in the scenarios folder.

I found some other inconsistencies in the great library but didn't know which way to fix them:

Destroyer: GL says it can Anti-Air active defend, units.txt has "ActiveDefenseRange 1" but not "Defend: Air" so doesn't work.
Interceptor: GL says it can Anti-Air active defend, units.txt has nothing regarding active defence.
Leviathan: GL says it can active defend against air, sea and land, units.txt has only against air.
Morey Striker: GL says it can Anti-sea active defend, units.txt has "ActiveDefenseRange 1" but not "Defend: Water" so doesn't work.
Plasma Destroyer: GL says it can Anti-sea active defend, units.txt has anti-air defend.

Hospital: GL says it reduces overcrowding by 0, left over from CtP1?

Suggestions?