Rugby World Cup: And the Winner is...

[Havak]

That was my reading of the turn around yes.

I see Zinzan is a happy camper?

[MikeH]

Zinzan seems a bit bitter. That yellow card looked blatant.

[finbar]

Very. He moved into the guy's path to block him.

I wish the Kiwis would stop banging on about (1) G. Henry's resting of the players during the S14 season; and (2) his selection rotation policy as having brought about the loss. The former had absolutely no impact because the players had a multitude of games after their return to S14, and the latter wasn't responsible for the poor tactics, particularly in the first half, and the lack of nouse late in the game. If G. Henry ordained the first half tactics, he made a blue. The lack of nouse late in the game falls back on the skipper and senior players. It also didn't help that their key playmaker and decision maker was off injured. You can't coach for those situations.

[MikeH]

Stolen from someone who stole it from somewhere on the Guardian site:


Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Got to the semi-
Could we defend our trophy?
Let's get quick ball
Kick for the lines and see -
We're just a poor team, we need no sympathy -
Because we're Eng-er-land, Eng-er-land,
A little old, a little slow,
Any way the match goes, doesn't really matter to me,
To me

England, just won a game
Oh we crushed the Aussie pack,
Mortlock missed, we won the match,
England, semi's the next one,
So please don't go and throw it all away -
England - ooo,
Let's try and score a try -
If we're knocked out by France this time on Saturday -
Carry on, carry on, 'cos at least we beat the Aussies -

England, our time has come,
Send flankers to the ruck -
Hope Wilko has some luck,
Goodbye all you Aussies - 'cos we got through -
Gotta leave you all behind and face the French -
England ooo - (any way the match goes)
We don't need a try,
I just hope we don't turn over the ball -

I see a little silhouetto of a man,
Robinson, Robinson will you break the French back line?
Vickery and Sheridan - very very frightening scrum-
Get the ball to, Get the ball to,
Get the ball to get the ball to,
Get the ball to Gomarsall - and Wilkinson -
But we're just a poor team and nobody loves us -
We're just a poor team from a poor hemisphere -
Spare us defeat from the South Africans -
Easy come easy go-, will we get quick ball -
But Betsen! No-, we will not get quick ball - get quick ball -
But Betsen! No-, we will not get quick ball - get quick ball -
But Betsen! No-, we will not get quick ball - get quick ball -
will not get quick ball - get quick ball -
will not get quick ball - get quick ball -
No,no,no,no,no,no,no -
Thierry, Thierry, Thierry and Julien -
Monsieur Laporte has a Seabass put aside for me, for me, for me -

So you think you can kick it and get territory -
So you think you can win it in your home country -
Oh Bernard - cant do this to us Bernard -
Just gotta drop goals - just gotta get Wilko to drop -

The French don't really matter,
'Cos though we'd like to win,
At least we beat the Aussies - at least we beat the Aussies last week...

Any way the match goes....

[Krill]

classic

[finbar]

Ditto.

[LordShiva]

France 9 - 14 England

[kittenOFchaos]

I always thought we had a chance if we played to our potential and whilst we have in certain areas and in patches, these players can still do better and that leaves me with hope we can win this Cup. In fact I even bet on it, just a shame it wasn't for cash...bah!!!

My greatest worry was meeting NZ as they play the sort of rugby that tears England teams apart.

Why can't England ever win easy, yet another tense, exciting game for those who were actively interested. I'm sure it wasn't that exciting or interesting for a neutral, but who cares about them at this time.

Wonder if I have any chance of getting tickets and slipping across the channel for the final...

Anyone got a ticket?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
Wonder if I have any chance of getting tickets and slipping across the channel for the final...

Do you go to many rugby matches?

[kittenOFchaos]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Do you go to many rugby matches?

Alot of Sale Sharks games when I lived up north and alot of Scotland games back when I played with Aberdeen Grammar Rugby team, including our memorable 9-6 loss to England at Murryfield in 1991 after Hasting botched the simplest of kicks.

Why?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
Why?

I was thinking of your experience of what touts might charge for a match like this.

[kittenOFchaos]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


I was thinking of your experience of what touts might charge for a match like this.

Well, yeah, it could be horrendous

I do actually prefer to watch on TV most of the time, simply as you get to see more of the action and in the case of watching Sale Sharks, not getting so wet!

[kittenOFchaos]

I'd like to see Hipkiss tell Sackey how to not get turned over before the Final...

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
I do actually prefer to watch on TV most of the time, simply as you get to see more of the action

It must be one of the hardest sports to see where the ball is, especially from way back in the stands.

[kittenOFchaos]

True, for some reason the more costly seats are at the half-way mark at Sale, whilst I always go for a few rows up in the Robinson Stand behind the posts as rugby is a lateral game and you don't see the spaces otherwise. You do get to see different aspects by being there and so often Sky aren't showing all the games...one of the oddest things was seeing our pitch at Edgely Park with a HUGE hole that eventually was filled (3 trips by stupid grounds man with a bucket of sand). Had a player put a foot into that whilst running, it'd have been a broken leg and a massive inquest.

Different deal with rugby league, saw Great Britain trounce NZ in Huddersfield (was taking a girl out, great choice of location to take a date hehe) it was far easier to see what was happening due to the nature of that game.

[finbar]

England score a try from a lucky bounce and barely threaten again, the French outside centre drops yet another simple pass in a glorious position, and the French chip-kick their way to oblivion. Tonight the tournament entered the realm of farce.

[kittenOFchaos]

Originally posted by finbar
England score a try from a lucky bounce and barely threaten again, the French outside centre drops yet another simple pass in a glorious position, and the French chip-kick their way to oblivion. Tonight the tournament entered the realm of farce.

Yeah, right, barely threaten again.

We almost had the get up and go for a drive over scrum, we almost had Robinson and Hipkiss through the French and Tait could have perhaps done more with a similar situation.

Just nice to see your colours Finbar...whatever happens we have got, Johnny Wilkinson and you have not

[finbar]

This has turned into a World Cup of lemmings. Australia to a lesser extent, certainly the All Blacks, now the French.

[kittenOFchaos]

Just checked out the prices I could get a World Cup ticket and I'll be staying at home!

Easily cost £1000, that can buy alot more pleasure elsewhere tbh!

Edit: I'm actually getting tempted, be a great start to my half-term holiday...wonder if I can get my dad to go and start looking at a deal to get that £1000 a ticket down to around £500. Any tips?

[kittenOFchaos]

Originally posted by finbar
This has turned into a World Cup of lemmings. Australia to a lesser extent, certainly the All Blacks, now the French.

Turned?

The Aussies were well beat and should have been beaten by more, NZ were kinda robbed with that forward pass but should have put France away. The Welsh just let Fiji back into it...but to be honest, the appeal of this World Cup has been how close games have been and with Wilkinson England do play better and can edge games that otherwise they'd lose.

Scotland were very lazy and should have beated the Argentines to set themselves up for a tonking by SA.

[finbar]

I stirred from my slumber this morning, and in that brief, hazy moment between sleep and waking, I thought I'd dreamed that France had played the tactically dumbest game imaginable, handing the semi to a team that relies on penalties and drop goals to win matches. No. No. Sadly, no. The dream had been an actual waking nightmare.

I can only pray to rugby God Zinzan that the Boks win tonight, hence not exposing the limited Argie game to the penalty-drop goal duet and allowing at least one finalist who actually plays real rugby.

[kittenOFchaos]

The French didn't score any tries, England kinda did, aren't aren't they rather more limited? Hell, at least England weren't trying drop goals from the half-way line.

[finbar]

My point exactly. The French committed tactical suicide. I wish B. Laporte a long and very unhappy life in the bosom of M'sieur Sarkozy.

But just to prove that I'm not entirely down on England, I liked what I saw of D. Hipkiss. I suspect he's the #13. I like M. Tait, I think he has real skills, but I don't think he's strong enough for #13. Maybe wing is his slot - in front of the over-rated Sackey - or, if his kicking is good enough, full back.

[Havak]

Well yes - Hipkiss at 13 and Tait on the wing would do nicely for me too.

I understand Finbar's frustration - England played very little rugby. What they did have was commitment - in spades.

On the flip side France played snatches of rugby but were, day I say, very "flat". LdiC's worst nightmare came to life - Les Bleues got their mental state badly wrong again in the follow up game from a big performance.

It is a concern that were are not scoring more tries in open play. It is more of a concern that our number 8 keeps blowing tries with poor control at the base of the scrum!

In all honesty Finbar if the boys manage to win next week with just penalties and drop goals I won't care in the slightest.

In all liklihood it will be the Boks we face. On paper we will have no chance at all there. But I've given up trying to predict this RWC. A lot would need to go right for us - and a lot would need to go wrong for them. But everything is possible in knock out rugby.

In any case I will be cheering the Pumas tonight because they have fully warranted being where they are now (arguably unlike my own countrymen) and because I love an underdog too.

Victoire!!!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
On the flip side France played snatches of rugby but were, day I say, very "flat". LdiC's worst nightmare came to life - Les Bleues got their mental state badly wrong again in the follow up game from a big performance.

Last week wasn't a big performance. They pinched a win against befuddled oppo. And learned nothing from the experience. Or at least the coach didn't. Last week they almost kicked the game away. Last night they did.

In all honesty Finbar if the boys manage to win next week with just penalties and drop goals I won't care in the slightest.

Of course not. In your boots, I'd be exactly the same. It's just a shame for rugby that much of the latter stages of this tournament is happening by default.

[finbar]

Cripes, Leicester go down to Sarries with T. Croft on the bench. What's he doing on the bench?

[finbar]

Finally, a better team wins, even if somewhat by default. The Argies made the Boks' job so much easier with their multitude of errors. Interesting to see the Argie scrum pushing around the Bok scrum. The Bok pack hasn't been the force of old through the entire tournament.

[LDiCesare]

It is a concern that were are not scoring more tries in open play.

It's a general concern since the quarter finals began.
The only nation to score tries was South Africa, and even then many tries were in counters. Fiji scored some, France and the All Blacks too (btw please stop commenting the forward pass between Traille and Michalak and look at the forward pass between Carter and Mc Allister on NZ's first try) but most of that match was spent kicking. England and Australia showed one try. Argentina vs Ireland I didn't see wholly.

France played a kicking game which isn't theirs and didn't even keep kicking to play in England half when they should have. And indeed Marty showed once again he was very good at knocking forward.

This game has been domincated by kicks, up and unders and kicks. I'm afraid the final will look the same, because England can't really do much with its centers, and South Africa can attack from afar with its wingers but not Montgomery. The match for the 3rd place is anyone's guess, depending on who gets selected, and whether the French try to play their game for a change.

[finbar]

I haven't mention the Michalek forward pass in ... several days. I haven't even thought about it in ... several minutes.

But, yes, the amount of kicking has been amazing, even from teams who don't normally play the kicking game. Interesting that those teams - the usually non-kickers - have come off second best. There's a lesson.

B. Ashton is being offered a new contract. Well, well, well.

[Havak]

Quelle Surprise eh?

What's he doing on the bench?

Nothing. More’s the pity.

From what I hear Mr Goode is not having a good run of form right now. I suspect the new coach might show him the door.

Finally, a better team wins, even if somewhat by default.

Absolutely ruthless in punishing the Pumas errors – and that does make me very nervous.

I’m also not convinced either France or Australia were better teams than England in those games – I think your exasperation led to an incorrect statement (very rare for you). England have won two games as the “less poor side” if I can put it that way. One thing they have done is play for each other – bodies have been put on the line in both games and I guess I couldn’t ask much more. They were not going to become a total rugby side like the ABs or Boks (or an expansive side like the Wallabies) in the space of four games.

because England can't really do much with its centers,

Picking Hipkiss at 13 would be a brave attempt to change that. The boy looks more at home there than Matthew Tait ever has. Lewsey is almost certainly out so Hipkiss at OC and Tait on the wing would be what I would like to see.

Let me be clear – I’m a dogged old Englishman and I will be cheering my team on. I would hope you would all expect nothing less of me.

I’m not stupid however. I know their form over the last four years means they are not particularly deserving of being world champions. I can’t blame England so much as point the finger at undoubtedly better sides that got knock out games badly wrong? It isn’t really England’s fault that higher ranked teams got beaten – those teams must look at themselves? It’s been a strange RWC all around.

Realistically I also fear that the boks have far too much in the locker for English passion and effort to overcome. They have played the better rugby throughout for sure. We could easily be very heavily stuffed.

So it’s a mountain to climb. But I still have to cheer them on and hope they climb it. As I say above it goes with the blood – sheer Anglo Saxon stubbornness. Come on England!