Hey, don't jump the gun...

MrLeN · January 10, 2001, 00:24

Ok, this is reaaaally gonna get your backs up, I know, but I can't help but say this.
Yeah, there are probs with the AI, we are all aware of that. There are bugs and flaws (most definately), and I haven't seen any large improvement with the first patch, even with the list of fixes from Activision that 'seems' so long. I can write three pages of flaws that 'I' personally know of, but that would just be stupid, coz it's got way to monotonous. I have even quit playing Multiplayer all together and have started a new online game of CIVII Test of time (I know, I know, that's sad) But I could not possibly bare the amout of problems, bugs, flaws, crashes and inconveniences which i'm sure there is no need to mention.) I was happy to see the patch, but soon realised that It didn't make any difference with the biggest problems. I sure to hope that Activision will release a 1.2 that FIXES these issues. I know they are taking note of this forum because if they didn't 'More the fool them'!
Having that all said, my point is that yeah, there are problems, but many things that people are posting on this forum are way too soon. I would seriously like to ask "Who has completed more than five games"?, It also annoys me that people are whinging and whining about stuff, then they conclude that they were on the medium level. I honestly believe that 'some' people here just like to cry.
Fair enough, there are things wrong with the game that you can see on your first go, but 'really' why are people making descisions about whether the improvements are needed, and that their cities aren't being devistated by over population and pollution and go on to say that they are only 1/2 finished their first game, and/or they are on medium level?
You can reply to this saying "The AI is dumb YEAAAH!!!/Der'r'r!" but that's not what this is about.
I am not talking of the faults, bugs and programming errors. I am talking about the abiltity to make an informed comment about the game, and can anyone explain to me how that can be done, only having played half a game?

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It's better to close your mouth and let everyone 'think' you're stupid, than open it and let everyone 'know' you are.

Dale · January 10, 2001, 02:08

quote:

Originally posted by MrLeN on 01-10-2001 12:24 AM
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It's better to close your mouth and let everyone 'think' you're stupid, than open it and let everyone 'know' you are.

MrLen, I suggest you take note of your signature. I can't vouch for everyone here, but myself personally have had the game for a month and a half. In that time I have won every single victory condition, even down to letting a game go to the end-of-time status and win by highest score (admittedly I had to click through heaps of turns doing nothing to get there), but I've done it. On impossible level alone, I've had at least 3 diplo wins, 1 science win (I honestly can't be bothered waiting for all that stuff to build, and the hassle of defending it all from pirates), 1 end-of-time win, and 10 conquest wins. One conquest win on a small map as early as renaiscance (or however it's spelt). I've also "defeated" on the highest levels CIV, CIV2, CIV2TOT, SMAC and CTP, as well as many other strategy games. I do believe I have the ability to make an "informed comment" on the game. Here goes:

1 - The AS (artificial stupid) is no challenge.
2 - The economics are out of whack.
3 - The game evolves too quickly (advances too fast).
4 - Diplo not utilised by AS.
5 - I actually think the tile improvs are slightly wrong too.
6 - Wonder-building waste of time, except for about a couple must-builds.
7 - Social engineering is out of whack (food, hours, wages sliders).
8 - Unhappiness is not a problem.
9 - City improvements don't give me that "I must build it" feeling to actually "Improve" my city.
10 - The AS doesn't make use of all the different strategies in strategies.txt. Have you seen how many there are in that file? I'd say it only uses about 4.

I could go on forever. However, I want to also list some good things I see in CTP2.

1 - The intro movie is great. I actually let it play through sometimes just to watch it.

2 - The AS does know how to make a decent city.
3 - The science victory is a good idea, but damn hard to achieve. The points don't reflect it either.
4 - The ability to make mods. (Though I don't have the time, and why should I when I shelled out $90AUS for a COMPLETED game)
5 - The intro of supermarkets and eco-parks is a good idea.
6 - How pollution is a lot more important (pollute now suffer later) makes it more realistic.
7 - Phalanxes can't kill off my air units anymore (or tanks either).

I've won the game by the quick-kill (rush to monarchy, then 15 cities pumping out hoplites/archers), economically (effectively I bought peace by giving heaps of money to all the other civs to get alliances), diplomatically (by diplomatically sucking up to other nations as opposed to buying their love), the developed kill (basically I develop till I get tanks and bombers then quick-kill everyone, my usual strategy) and by full-development (as little as 10 cities maxed out scientifically and discovering everything). There's no fun in it anymore.

So MrLen, I'd find out just exactly who I was talking to before making any more ludicrous comments like I've seen you do a couple of times.

Dale!

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

MrLeN · January 10, 2001, 03:09

Dale,
First of all, you are not the first person to 'wrongly' quote my signature and try to use it against me. That is easy to 'try', and cheap. You are a loser in doing so.
Not only have you 'not' paid any attention to my post, but you have also spent more time 'trying' to make me look bad, other than continuing with your suggestions.
As a matter of fact your lack of intelligence makes me feel tired. You have said nothing that I, or anyone else hasn't already commented on in other threads. You have also said nothing, apart from the accusations of being "ludicrous", that I don't agree with.
You are a hypocrite and have contradicted yourself in saying...

quote:

So MrLen, I'd find out just exactly who I was talking to before making any more ludicrous comments like I've seen you do a couple of times.

...because I was not talking to the likes of a person that has your experience.
You said...

quote:

In that time I have won every single victory condition

and you said...

quote:

On impossible level alone, I've had at least 3 diplo wins, 1 science win (I honestly can't be bothered waiting for all that stuff to build, and the hassle of defending it all from pirates), 1 end-of-time win, and 10 conquest wins.

and you also said...

quote:

I've also "defeated" on the highest levels CIV, CIV2, CIV2TOT, SMAC and CTP, as well as many other strategy games.

So how do those comments actually have anything to do with what my post was about?...
This is what I said...

quote:

why are people making descisions about whether the improvements are needed, and that their cities aren't being devistated by over population and pollution and go on to say that they are only 1/2 finished their "first game", and/or they are on medium level?

NOTE: "First Game" <-- how do you feel this applies to you?
and I also said this...

quote:

It also annoys me that people are whinging and whining about stuff, then they conclude that they were on the medium level. I honestly believe that 'some' people here just like to cry.

The following comment demonstrates that maybe, really 'YOU' should pay more attention to my signature...

quote:

You can reply to this saying "The AI is dumb YEAAAH!!!/Der'r'r!" but that's not what this is about.

This is exactly what you have gone and done! Are you on medication? Maybe you had better go check the dosage?
It is easy to try and seem smart by downgrading another persons point of view, but what you really need to do is work out 'what' you're actually trying to say and in 'what' context, and it would also help by commenting on the 'intended issue' and not what you have to say, but are trying to make it fit in.
I know you are trying, I can understand that. Just read the initial post properly next time. If you need a hug, just let me know coz, hey.... everyone feels bad sometimes

For those of you that don't want to make the same mistake that my friend, Dale here made, I will make my point in simpler wording...
Ready? put on your glasses...
Here it comes...
If you have had 'little' experience in the game, 'stop' trying to keep up with everyone else in just 'looking' for something bad, because it is annoying.
P.S. Dale, you have an inferiority complex.

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It's better to close your mouth and let everyone 'think' you're stupid, than open it and let everyone 'know' you are.

Dale · January 10, 2001, 03:43

Here's a quote from your original post:

quote:

Having that all said, my point is that yeah, there are problems, but many things that people are posting on this forum are way too soon. I would seriously like to ask "Who has completed more than five games"?, It also annoys me that people are whinging and whining about stuff, then they conclude that they were on the medium level. I honestly believe that 'some' people here just like to cry.

If you'd care to read what people are actually saying, and who's saying it, you'll find that nearly all newbies to the game/genre are asking things like "Is it me or is .....", "Has anyone noticed that....", or even "I beat the game on my first game in medium.....". The people making all the noise about the game are the people who are 'experienced'.

But in any case, my reply was in the context of (if you couldn't pick up my sarcasim) that if you're sick of hearing newbies complain about the problems of the game, then hear it from someone who's played it a lot. Sheesh, talk about stressed out.

quote:

The following comment demonstrates that maybe, really 'YOU' should pay more attention to my signature...

You can reply to this saying "The AI is dumb YEAAAH!!!/Der'r'r!" but that's not what this is about.

This is exactly what you have gone and done!

Read my list of complaints again MrLen. There is only 3 points in there that refer to the AI. There were 7 other points. Besides, I didn't say the AI was dumb, just pointed out it was badly programmed. I thought this was obvious from my list.

quote:

1 - The AS (artificial stupid) is no challenge.
4 - Diplo not utilised by AS.
10 - The AS doesn't make use of all the different strategies in strategies.txt.

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."
[This message has been edited by Dale (edited January 10, 2001).]

MrLeN · January 10, 2001, 04:30

Hey Dale,
You are very argumentative. Not only was I not talking about people such as yourself who have had alot of experience, but I was also 'NOT' talking about newbies that are honeslty asking what they may be doing wrong...

quote:

If you'd care to read what people are actually saying, and who's saying it, you'll find that nearly all newbies to the game/genre are asking things like "Is it me or is .....", "Has anyone noticed that...." or even "I beat the game on my first game in medium.....".

and tell me something I haven't already acknowledged...

quote:

The people making all the noise about the game are the people who are 'experienced'.

They're the ones I'm trying to make ROOM FOR!!! DER!

Just like in your last post, you are bringing extra issues into your 'argument' and trying to label them on the context of my comments.
It is a good Idea when bringing forth your 'argument' that you try to avoid creating new issues that weren't there in the first place...

quote:

But in any case, my reply was in the context of (if you couldn't pick up my sarcasim) that if you're sick of hearing newbies complain about the problems of the game, then hear it from someone who's played it a lot. Sheesh, talk about stressed out.

You have a vivid imagination. I realise there are newbies who want to make comments about the game, but where did I mention that they can't, or shouldn't or anything similar?
About your comment that you only said three things about the AI...

quote:

Read my list of complaints again MrLen. There is only 3 points in there that refer to the AI. There were 7 other points. Besides, I didn't say the AI was dumb, just pointed out it was badly programmed. I thought this was obvious from my list.

I was being easy on you. Not 'only' did you do what I knew some goose would, but you went further. How big did my list have to be, of what my thread was 'NOT' about?
You still haven't got it have you? I am so glad that I am me, and not you. The problem is that you don't realise how much of a dim wit you are. We could go on like this and have our own little thread, but I don't feel like it. Can you take your argumentative nature somewhere else?
Maybe you could start your own thread? Heres an idea..."Why do I have hair growing in funny places"?
Now run along...
P.S. Hopefully we can get back to the intended issue, try scrolling up for 20 minutes (avoid all the post from Dale, he is having mental problems)

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It's better to close your mouth and let everyone 'think' you're stupid, than open it and let everyone 'know' you are.

Dale · January 10, 2001, 06:53

You still don't get what I was saying, do ya? Let's go back to the very first sentence:

quote:

Ok, this is reaaaally gonna get your backs up, I know, but I can't help but say this.

You provided the hook, and I provided the fish to bite. Get it? You got a ribbing, the but end of a joke, your leg pulled, however you what to take it. Hence the use of sarcasim in my comments. As a Melbournian, I thought you could take a joke. Obviously I was wrong, or you're from the western suburbs.

As to the real motive of the thread, you're right. I agree that it appears some folks are blaming the game and Activision too early. To them I would suggest playing a few games all the way through, reading the strategies we've all come up with (and tips), and get the feel and flow of the game. Worry about learning how the game plays, than trying to blame the not-knowing on the game.

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."
[This message has been edited by Dale (edited January 10, 2001).]

MrLeN · January 10, 2001, 08:45

ROFLMAO @ 'trying' to make out you were going along with a joke! *HEHE*... Gee, I nearly fell off my chair after that one!!! My stomach hurts!!! ROFL, lol, *hehe*
Looks to me, that you are a real sucker for the power of suggestion? no? LOL...

quote:

Ok, this is reaaaally gonna get your backs up, I know, but I can't help but say this.

thus...

quote:

You provided the hook, and I provided the fish to bite. Get it? You got a ribbing, the but end of a joke, your leg pulled, however you what to take it. Hence the use of sarcasim in my comments. As a Melbournian, I thought you could take a joke. Obviously I was wrong, or you're from the western suburbs.

But the main thing is...
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY!!!, you finally got it!!!...

quote:

As to the real motive of the thread, you're right. I agree that it appears some folks are blaming the game and Activision too early. To them I would suggest playing a few games all the way through, reading the strategies we've all come up with (and tips), and get the feel and flow of the game. Worry about learning how the game plays, than trying to blame the not-knowing on the game.

Further more, I couldn't have found beter words myself!
I am very pleased, well done

P.S. Yes I live on the Western side of Melbourne... does that mean we have to argue for another 20-30 posts, about whether that is ok with you or not?

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It's better to close your mouth and let everyone 'think' you're stupid, than open it and let everyone 'know' you are.