On "persuading" an AI to end his war against you...

**Tattila the Hun** · October 20, 2006, 16:15

So, I played a game of Warlords yesterday, Prince, Chinese Dude Not Mao, me on a small island/continent, only Hannibal close by. We share a religion, and are in friendly terms. Time flies by, I fall back on tech (not a very good player...), then other civs start to crop up. Genghis starts making demands right away, I politely tell him to get bent, as he has no means to reach me. Roosevelt is my buddy, we trade stuff and the likes. My military is pitifully weak compared to both, as I haven't had any use for it. So, Astronomy and Chemistry come along, and I start to build troops to fend of Ghengis. He'll come...

So, my pitifull military is mostly musketmen and chinese crosbowmen, with few catapults thrown in for good measure, plus few archers and axemen. Then, Roosevelt declares war on me. I though we was friends! He land couple boatloads of cavalry on the next turn, while I've mustered my troops, having them heading towards a likely landing ground, which they reach in the nick of time. Catapults really save the day, as do the few pikemen I have. But, in the end, I'm forced to expend horrendous amounts of troops in suicide missions to kill the cavalries. Afterwards, I dig in and start building more catapults. Roosevelts starts to talk to me after a while, as his ships plunder my waterways. He is still pleased, however, refuses to sign a peace treaty with me, as my military still is only about 20% of his. He lands small amounts of troops from time to time, which are killed, at tremendous losses to me... All the while, "this war spoils our relationship!" (Then bloody end it!) I research chemistry and start whipping out frigates, and manage to reclaim my waters, and start building a small invasion force, hoping to raze Chigago, which is short distance away from me, on the american continent. Catapults for the win. BTW, Roosevelt would agree to a peace for 900G, but I'm to pissed off to even consider...

Then, Genghis comes after me. He declares war, his fleet at the striking distance of mine. I go after his ships, manage to sink most of his frigates, but his galleons push through, land riflemen, cavalry and trebuchets. I wipe them out with my american invasion force, at heavy cost...

By this time, I have researched steel, which I later trade to Ghenghis for ceasefire... However long that will be.

(I'm quite happy to give him something for peace, but not FDR... Because I fully expect him to declare war on him, but not FDR, who is my friend... Backstabbing b***d) All the while, I've build cannons, galleons and frigates, hoping to raze Roosevelt to the negotiating table. He is angry towards Genghis, BTW, from "declaring war at his friend", me...

I set sail towards Chigago, my overall military strength a mere fraction of his. His troops are dispersed along several continents, fortunately, so only two Infantries (yikes!) guard Chigago. My 6 cannons make mincemeat out of them, while ambhibious Grenadiers make a landfall, capture, and torch the city.

"There will be no peace."

So I regroup, whip some more cannons... (Citizens not happy...), and go after Washington. Four infantries, no match for my cannons and grenadiers. White House burns, Capitol is in ruins, millions of people are dead...

"I don't think so"

Sure, he is furious... But...

Rinse and repeat, I torch New York, holy city of Confucianism.

"Hah, peace? You must be joking!"

By this time, Ghengis comes after my almost undefended continent with more troops I have in total, and I call it quits.

There's a point to this thread.

If one is in my situation, hopelesly outnumbered in groundtroops, but with enough navy to repel any invasion until combustion comes along... How do I convince the bloody dimwits that their fight has no chance for few centuries? Without paying few centuries worth of gold, preferably? Keep Chigago and give it to him in exchance? Just station the troops on some forested hill outside a city of his? (And name that hill Hamburger Hill, while I'm at it, cause my troops will get butchered...)

I also wonder, if it would be possible to ad some sort of check, "if player razes X cities from me, I consider signing a peacetreaty, because he is a bloody psycho"?

**Jaybe** · October 20, 2006, 16:44

I do not have an answer for you, particularly since you razed his cities (not that you could have kept them).

OTOH, it seems that Roosevelt was playing the role of Stalin and you were playing the role of Germany (Adolph), despite the fact that Roosevelt started the bloody thing. I see it this way because:
1. Roosevelt's army outnumbered yours, though you (having a brain) used yours much more efficiently.
2. Despite losing vast amounts of real estate Roosevelt kept on slugging, especially after you razed his cities.

I gotta admire the high drama you experienced during your game, though I prefer huge marathon fractals.

**Arrian** · October 20, 2006, 17:02

It's gotta be the overall power disparity. The AI will look at the power graph (sorta) and think it's winning. Its pitiful tactics mean that it can have a massive power advantage and lose, but that's another matter.

What you need is to play more games and work on building a respectable military. Get to it!

-Arrian

**Tattila the Hun** · October 21, 2006, 07:00

My general game is lacking, true... In theory, I could have whipped zounds of Grenadiers, in hopes to tilt the scales just enough. But the game was, in general, going so badly, that it would have been like bailing on Titanic... On the other hand, that was the most fun I've had playing Civ4 in long time.

Really desperate slugfest.

This was marathon fractal, though standard...

Oh, BTW, how are the relative strengths of units counted? If I wish to advance in the powerchart, which is more powerful, grenadier or cannon? Or perhaps fregate?

**Blake** · October 24, 2006, 05:20

The AI judges it's progress in a war by relative unit losses, and that's pretty much it. If you invade an AI but your invasion sustains heavier losses than the AI (even if the AI loses cities) it may conclude it is winning... on the flipside when the AI exhausts a large stack in breaking your defenses it'll sign peace right before winning, since it took heavier losses (like losing 10 attacking units to break 6 city garrison units...). Relative strength is counted to a degree (ie the unit power value which depends somewhat on strength).

The best way to make peace with an AI (other than killing more of it's unit than it kills of yours) is to take a city then use it to barter for peace.