Apolyton Unversity Mod

[ZargonX]

In the past, Apolyton University, in addition to studying/educating on different aspects of the game, has worked to create a Mod that fixes/balances/improves the single-player experience to make it richer and more fufilling. Now that CIV has been out for a while, I think it is perhaps time that we begin discussions on this mod in earnest. With XML, Python, and access to the SDK, the world of modding for Civ has never been so open to us before. Conversely, modding itself is harder than it has been in the past.

Thus, approaching this Mod should be a two-fold process. Step one is determing what should go into the mod. Step two is finding those among us who have the skill/willingness to assemble the mod itself. Resources are available to those who want to learn, and I know there are those of you out there who are already quite skilled.

Does this course of action sound reasonable to everyone?

[DrSpike]

Don't want to be a party pooper but not really!

The thing is Civ3 benefited from modding because it, well, wasn't very balanced strategically. Civ4 could use a few minor tweaks here and there, but overall I was rather impressed at what they achieved out of the box. Since I am about the biggest balance nazi I know this is quite high praise.

The biggest changes needed like the maths chop change and some of the civic upkeep issues have been done already.

Also, your timing is a little off with Warlords about to come out. Maybe if they break the game with the x-pack there will be more value in a 'Poly mod. However, since they used many of the same community crew for beta testing I'm reasonably confident they wont.

[Stuie]

Well... echoing what DrSpike said...

I'm not sure a mod is needed. Especially when you consider who the driving force behing the AU mod was and who the lead programmer on Civ4 is.

[ZargonX]

Looking things over, I think it's time to give this thread a big ol' BUMP! Recently, Blake has done some excellent work on AI improvements, but in a game as complex as CIV, there's still plenty more to work on!

I hope to use the next few AU courses as not only ways to focus and improve the player's game, but also as examinations of what aspects of the game need work/tweaks/etc.

In the past we had an AU Panel to debate what would be included in the mod; I don't think we are quite at that point yet, but I definitely wish to encourage more discussion and examination so we can start to move into a more solid planning phase.

As tuition-payers at this particular University (I'm still waiting on those checks, everyone!), what are your thoughts?

[DrSpike]

Let Blake get on with it.

There still aren't any glaring balance issues (in fact less with the CS changes) to mod. Just AI issues really, which seems under control.

[Blake]

Good idea.

People should probably suggest good adviser mods (and such) altough I don't actually use any of them.


There are a few minor balance changes I'd like to make.

I consider that in terms of balance, one of the weaker points is the Civics Labor column. Slavery is a little dominating and essential. Whipping is also prone to being exploited with the likes of "Double whips" (whipping axemen for 2 pop and such).

My idea to improve the state of whipping would be to make the 1 pop whip give 40 hammers instead of 30, this means that axes, spears etc can no longer be doublewhipped, but it also makes the 1 pop whip more viable instead of practically forcing double-whipping.

I would then buff Serfdom and Caste System so they can compete with Slavery slightly better.
To Serfdom, I would give +1c per farm (most likely NOT being boosted by financial), so that farm/mine can compete with cottage-whip slightly better. Obviously without Slavery farm/mine is your only real option for production.
To Caste System, I would probably make it give Merchant specialists +1h, making for the possibility of some slight production in fishing villages, and merchants are the generally least used specialist. If this is deemed overpowered it could even be +1h -1g, making merchants +1h +2g, sort of the reverse of priests.


Another point of balance: Culture. I don't like that culture flipping is all about the city tile itself. I think what I'd do is make it a weighted sum of the inner "thin cross" of the city and also reduce the ability for a large garrison to surpress flips which really should happen.

And the final issue I have: War Weariness. I actually like the concept more than most, but there ARE a couple of aspects which are basically bugs. Basically, you get war-weariness when fighting in territory which isn't culturally yours. What I say, is that you should only get war weariness when you are fighting enemies in territory which is culturally theirs. The reason for the disinction is that you get massive WW for defending allies (non teammate allies) and stuff, or for fighting 3rd parties on lands you conquered.
IE. I'm Japan. I conquer most of China. Then I fight Russia in ex-Chinese territory, both I and Russia wrack up warweariness for fighting in Japanese cultural territory. I say that either there should be no war weariness, or the japanese culture should be removed from the equation and only my culture and russian culture compared.

[fed1943]

Sorry, but I still remember the troubles mods gave me when
something new comes: patches,extensions.

Do it as you want, but if mods need to be in, I'll be out.

Best regards,

[DrSpike]

You took your time considering that response.