Can't defend starbases with spaceships?

**Badtz Maru** · March 25, 2006, 10:48

Before starting a war, I parked military ships on the same squares as my starbases because most did not have any defenses. It didn't seem to help - an enemy ship blew up one of my very nice Influence starbases and left the ships in the same square intact. Shouldn't attackers have to first destroy the ships in the same area before they get a shot at my starbase, or do I have to surround my starbases with ships to keep them from being destroyed?

**Hansolo88** · March 27, 2006, 11:52

I think fleets and starbases are treated as separate entities so when the AI attacks the square he is given the option of which he wants to attack, and obviously he chooses to attack the undefended starbase.

The only way you could defend the starbase is by putting it in a fleet with starships so that they would all fight together, and I don't think this is possible (is it?).

**DaviddesJ** · March 27, 2006, 13:25

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Shouldn't attackers have to first destroy the ships in the same area before they get a shot at my starbase, or do I have to surround my starbases with ships to keep them from being destroyed?

It seems like they should, but they don't. But you can just attack the enemy ships approaching your starbase before they attack it. Unless their speed is greater than yours, when they get within range to attack you, they will also be close enough for you to attack them. And it's better to attack than defend, anyway.

**Badtz Maru** · March 27, 2006, 18:37

Yeah, I guess I better research sensors better and pay closer attention to the map. Any way to get it to highlight ships from civs you are at war with?

**Hansolo88** · March 28, 2006, 08:28

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Yeah, I guess I better research sensors better and pay closer attention to the map. Any way to get it to highlight ships from civs you are at war with?

Yeah that would be a nice feature but at the moment you just have to be alert for enemy ships. Zoomed out its quite a bit easier since you just have to scan the map for icons of a certain color.

**tetley** · March 28, 2006, 09:46

I agree, it should have to attack your ships first. In fact, I would consider it a bug.

**Hansolo88** · March 28, 2006, 11:38

It's not really a bug, since the whole concept of the logistics system is in the game to prevent all the ships in a location from simply defending together, whether they are in fleets or not. By forcing you to group ships in fleets in order for them to fight together offensively or defensively, it prevents the defender from having a permanent advantage simply through massing ships in one location that will all fight together while the attacker is limited to attacking with one fleet at a time.

All that said, it would be nice to be able to group ships and starbases together into fleets so that you could defend weaponless starbases from enemy ships. But that doesn't change the fact that the best way to defend your starbase is to attack the enemy ships when they get close, since attackers get the advantage (as was noted by DaviddesJ).

**ACEofHeart** · March 28, 2006, 23:26

Just adding my 2 cents..
I just think its plain wrong programming that ships do not protect starbases if they are both in the same space.. If an enemy ship attacks the space where both the starbase and your ship is it only makes sense that your ship would engage it..They protect a planet don't they??
What exactly is the "Guard" option for then ??

**DaviddesJ** · March 28, 2006, 23:37

Originally posted by Hansolo88
It's not really a bug, since the whole concept of the logistics system is in the game to prevent all the ships in a location from simply defending together, whether they are in fleets or not. By forcing you to group ships in fleets in order for them to fight together offensively or defensively, it prevents the defender from having a permanent advantage simply through massing ships in one location that will all fight together while the attacker is limited to attacking with one fleet at a time.

No one is talking about grouping all of the ships in a location together. All we are saying is that if there is a fleet and a starbase in a location, the enemy should have to attack the fleet before they can attack the starbase. Just as you have to attack a fleet orbiting a planet before you can attack the planet.

**Hansolo88** · March 29, 2006, 11:28

Originally posted by ACEofHeart
Just adding my 2 cents..
I just think its plain wrong programming that ships do not protect starbases if they are both in the same space.. If an enemy ship attacks the space where both the starbase and your ship is it only makes sense that your ship would engage it..They protect a planet don't they??
What exactly is the "Guard" option for then ??

I agree, this is a reasonable request, but what if the situation is the other way around? Say you have a very powerful starbase and a weak fleet with invasion transports or something, now you might want the starbase to fight first and defend the fleet.

The only real alternative is for the game to determine the optimal defender, taking into account weapons/defenses types, and then fight that fleet/base against the attackers. That way you could put a fleet in the same square as an unarmed starbase and it would defend it, or put a transport in the same square as a powerful starbase and it would be protected.

**ACEofHeart** · March 29, 2006, 13:12

Hmmm,, and why would you even be "protecting" transports with weak fleets ???

That scenario posibility seems less plausable than the one that does and has happened,,Starbases being attacked with no protection available from your ships even when though they are parked with them..
And we're talking especially about those intial Mining and Influence type Starbases...
I would think your fleets would not be that weak by the time those Starbases are upgraded to the point that you would be considered as your first strike option.

**ACEofHeart** · March 29, 2006, 14:30

but I do agree about being able to put a transport there for protection..,, thats good strategy

**mike2h** · March 29, 2006, 14:43

in gc 1 you could 'stack' ships on starbases & they would defend them. this was really nasty when you made the starbases into planet killers.
i think if you attack a starbase with weapons & it has ships guarding it you should be attacking both the starbase & the ships.
i also believe in not letting the enemy getting close to my starbases if possible.

**tetley** · March 29, 2006, 16:43

I see nothing wrong with fleeting starbases and ships together. You move at the speed of the slowest ship. A starbase's move is 0.

**DaviddesJ** · March 29, 2006, 18:53

Yeah, on reflection I think you should defend with one fleet plus the starbase. Helping the defense would not be bad, and this handles both the case of strong fleet and weak starbase, or strong starbase and weak fleet.