FIRAXIS asks for your help on Interface Design...

yin26 · October 17, 1999, 03:51

[Well, I just got this e-mail from Blair at Firaxis. This is actually quite exciting because it represents something solid for us to focus on. I can't wait to see all the ideas...(Yin)]

Hello Everyone,

I’m Blair Wolf of "FIRAXIS" and I will be doing Interface Design for "Civilization III". This note I’m posting is a call for suggestions of Screens/Features/Icons/Etc specifically for the Report Screens (not the City screens, Main game screen, Opening Interface, Etc). Anything "you" the player would like to see in regards to information displayed unto you in regards to "Report Screens".

What would enhance your enjoyment of playing the game?

I suspect I will be receiving quite a bit of email on the subject. So here’s how I would "like" submissions to be formatted.

1) Please be Brief and to the point…But if illustrating (in words) what you mean helps get your point across, by all means elaborate.

2) References to other games…Be specific in reference.

3) Use Constructive Criticism…If you don’t like something, tell me why. If you do like something also tell me why.

I suppose that this should be enough to start with. I look forward to your suggestions/comments.

To everyone out there, Be Well and Take care.

Blair Wolf

FIRAXIS

Icedan · October 17, 1999, 07:26

I'm a graphic designer for webdesign and advertisement also other graphical departments.

I suggest making the icons "soft". You can get a soft look if you add a "inner shadow" with the depth of 2, opacity at 50% and blur set at either 2 or 3, for a soft look - as an example of what I mean by soft (in photoshop of course). Use different colours to give identification. Try not to make it too complicated looking.
Turn the text into links. So say in the City Report view somewhere it says "Tax" Then that word "Tax" would be highlighted yellow and maybe underlined. so when you click on it you go straight to the tax window.

When you say screens I am guessing you mean the background screens of information on your civilization, Intelligence, city, foriegn advisor. I think instead of having just a background and written words on top of it, you should have a constructed image especially made for each subject.
So lets say in the stone ages, the information could be carved into stone, or something like that? something to represent the age. In the future you see it on computer. etc.
Another idea is to have the advisor stand there showing you his/hers report.

Just try not to make it all look too complicated. use soft colours and make the images look soft.
Make it all professional looking, top notch, fit for a king type stuff.
[This message has been edited by Icedan (edited October 17, 1999).]

Navarro · October 17, 1999, 08:33

Maybe a good approach is to look at interfaces that don't work.

One major Civ example is Civilization CtP. Harsh bright colours, illogical controls etc.
(I haven't finished a game yet! yuck!). Improve on that and your halfway towards a winner

I'm involved in webpage interface design. Especially concepts, look at http://logicbox.net

jof · October 17, 1999, 08:38

Civ2, city status (F1):
show not only the number of shields a city generates per turn, but also the number of shields which are used effectively for the production box (after subtraction of shields for support)

TitanTim · October 17, 1999, 22:36

I have a general comment about the Civ3 'look'. I find Civ2 very 'graphically pleasing'. This means that the colours complement one another. The units are the right size, shape, and colour. The terrain is easily distinguishable from one another yet flow together to create a uniform world. The units do not clash with one another nor the terrain. I hate to say it but I believe that SMAC hurts in all these categories.

Next, city screens in both SMAC and Civ2 are very nice to work with. All three people who have replyed to this point have excellent points. Basically jof is saying build on Civ3 as SMAC built on Civ2 with respect to info in the city screen (shield, food, energy/gold usage). Yet caution is needed so that this additional info can be presented in an easy and understandable way so that it doesn't become cluttered.

Lastly, I like Icedan's ideas of making links going to a more in-depth breakdown of the information in question. This is adding upon SMAC's usage of links within the help. Maybe even have the game integrate more as a web game for those people who are connected 24 hours a day. Icedan also has a great idea of creating the complete look and feel of the civ's city screens, menus, displays, etc. more based on its science, religion, economy, etc.

Basically my ideas are to make sure the game is graphically pleasing (like Civ2 not SMAC), more info with links to detailed info yet not cluttered, and displays based upon social status.

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TitanTim

raingoon · October 18, 1999, 03:08

I'd like to have reports on the previous turn's developments available in a ticker window a la SC3K. Things like which prophet began to preach and where, who currently leads the world in trade, what were the results of the Mongolian civil war during the last turn, etc., would all scroll across the bottom of the screen. Each new turn the ticker would refresh its content.

Also like SC3K, certain words in each bulletin should be linked to the appropriate window/adviser as they scroll by.

This inteface combines the old Civ I feel of the newspaper with a more contemporary gaming interface -- one that's suitable for the greater complexity Of Civ III.

Imran Siddiqui · October 18, 1999, 03:53

I like that Ticker idea, and Ingrspin's "looks meet the age" thing. It'd be great to see a stone interface at 4000 BC, with a stone-like ticker going across, and then see a computerized interface in 2000 with a NYSE type ticker for that. Kind of like Age of Kings did, when you advanced to a new age, the interface would change. A new age to be designated by a certain tech.

Depp · October 18, 1999, 07:34

Did someone say the the interface in CTP was ugly??????

Come on, its the most beautiful interface of them all! Nice soft graphics with a golden touch.

The problem with that interface was really that everyone was so into the civ2 interface that they didn't get the ctp interface.
I had problems with it the first time i played but the 2nd it was alot smoother and later on it was even faster than civ 2.
But then you had to really try the game to get it, which not alot did. I will not go into details why

Just dont make the right click menus like those in smac, with alot of useless stuff and all the stuff you used alot was 3 menues away. I don't wanna learn 48 key combos to play a game smoothly.

yin26 · October 18, 1999, 08:16

For me, I like the interface to completely go away when I don't need it--like when you switch to 'full screen' in a browser. Mini-icons appear and/or things slide off the window until you put the mouse over that edge. Starcraft, for example, uses 1/3 of the screen for its interface. That's waaay too much.

And, just like a browser, I would like to be able not only to hide/shrink the interface but be able to customize the menu order or-- like Word 2000--the menus should shift thier hierarchy according to frequency of use, that way the things we do the most are always at the top.

Those things would really make the game much nicer and easier to use.

Gregor · October 18, 1999, 09:55

In column 69 I discussed game design, I think the same approach can be used in interface design. Think of it in terms of creating forms and reports in MS Access.
Make a list of all the information you could possibly manipulate in the game. Make an Interface Editor which allows the user to design the interface of his choice, including colors, backgrounds, fonts, sizes, etc. Create a default interface for shipping (or a few to choose from). NOw, if we want to be able to control everything from one giant mega-controlling screen, we can, or if we would rather have a browser type linked screen, we can. Or perhaps we want to make it look like Civ2, etc.
I like how Civ2 used standard Windows for it's screens (at least on the main map). That way, you have a lot more freedom. Those of us that use multiple monitors can have lots of information up on the screens at one time.

The diplomat · October 18, 1999, 10:09

I would like to see little icons above the city on the main map to warn about a problem, like is done for drone riots. I would like to see the same kind of thing for a food deficit, minerals deficit and energy deficit. This would really help manage a large empire as the player would see right away if a city were in a famine or something else.

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

Seeker · October 18, 1999, 10:32

I think that each advisor should control the report that deals with his particular area. He/she should be costumed appropriately to the era. It should be optional to turn them off in a scenario. A new advisor should be included for special events (which will undoubtedly be included) or maybe use The King. Colours should be bright. Text shouldn't be dense, but I don't want to see a Spartan display littered with tiny, incomprehensible icons. Think: "like Civ 2, but better." "Nothing like CTP" and "some elements of Civ 1 (far more elaborate reports on history and events)"
Interesting Examples: -in SSG's "Warlords 2: Deluxe, there was a report on signifigant events that turn and over history, I liked the little bits of "flavour text" in the "Triumphs" in warlords, ie enemies are never just "killed" they're "slaughtered like sheep".
-in the old game "Castles 2: Siege and Conquest" some events and reports would trigger an .avi to play in a window...if u made this accessible to scenario designers it would be doubleplusgood.

Navarro · October 18, 1999, 14:47

About the CTP interface

That 'nice golden, soft interface' is all glare. And calling it soft is correct if you consider a pillow made out of the most expensive feathers, as hard.

I have nothing against the game, I unfortunately don't have hours and hours to get 'used' to the interface. And unfortunately that spoilt the game.

About the SMAC interface

I don't believe SMAC's interface is that complicated. There are no items that are more than two clicks away. It's just the case that there are a lot of them. Does it have a simple menus function? (I can't remember off-hand)

This is getting off topic, Ill stop now!

Navarro · October 18, 1999, 14:48

what the???????

[This message has been edited by Navarro (edited October 18, 1999).]

Navarro · October 18, 1999, 14:49

<snip>

Slow website, didn't mean to double post
[This message has been edited by Navarro (edited October 18, 1999).]

Zorloc · October 18, 1999, 18:58

I would like to be able to view periodic reports that I can configure. An excellent example is MS Money '99: Business and Personal. You can view Monthly reports, which show a global picture of your finances, shows in which categories you have spent more or less than in the previous period, shows which investments are performing better, and warns me of oddities and potiential errors in my records.

This could easily apply to a turn or multi-turn based report (which would be optional to view). The start of the report would show your current GNP (sub divided into categories: Military, Science, Health/Welfare, Public Construction, etc) and whether your GNP grew or shrank from the previous period and by how much. Next, the report would compare your spending in each of these categories vs. the previous period.

Then the report could break down you public spending and effectiveness. For example:

You have invested ##### money units into construction of Science Buildings and your production of Science has increased 15% (##### units) due to this investment,
You have invested ##### money units into construction of Economic Buildings and your tax revenue has increased 10% (###### units), Science has increased 4% (####### units), happiness 5% (###### citizens), production 2% (##### units) due to this investment.

This way it is not only very easy to make sure that we are not over emphasizing one area of the economy or neglecting the military, but to make sure that we are investing our financial resources most effectively.

You could even make these reports more sparse in higher difficulty levels, so it is harder to determine if you are making the correct decisions.

jbw

Icedan · October 18, 1999, 19:39

I like your idea of a full screen option yin26.
I often feel a bit closed in with bars on the sides of my screen.
I think *all* options, report screens and everything else should be found under the cursor menu.
I also like the feeling of holding down the space bar to scroll the screen across with the mouse. Like in photoshop. It seems to give you more power on centering your view on whatever you choose. It also gives the feeling of being more constructive with your work.

Colour is important for identifying the relations between subjects.
So I think when I open the intelligence report window, the background will have a slight green tint in it. And if I open the foriegn advisor window it will have a slight red tint in the background and so on.
So to the user, you are reminded that you are at the intelligence window when you see the green. And that works when you have to draw up a graph, the green bar will relate to the intelligence window. The mind remembers that naturally.

I still like the idea of the interface changing to reflect the progress of your civilization so that you are interacting with the technology aswell and not just your civilization. This would give off a feeling of satisfaction and pride.

In CTP a goldish yellow was used for the main colour in their interface, to me this is a bad move because it guides the eye away from the main window (game window) and to the toolbar too much. The interfaces main colour should be dark, but not too dark. Artists should know that gray is the best base colour to use for most other colours.
Which is to your advantage if you decide to make the interface reflect your progress because stone and computers are a grayish colour.

I'd just like to point out that I found SMAC's interface too large and complicated. please remember that not everyone has a 17" monitor yet. Instead allow for resolution to be changed.
Just trying to make my view on less complication more important. *Simplicity is the key!*
[This message has been edited by Icedan (edited October 18, 1999).]

TitanTim · October 18, 1999, 19:55

This may seem off topic but it has to do with when interfaces are really needed (more importantly the city screen) and that the interface must be easily accessible for common functions.

Most of my friends hate my strategy of build and defend. In many games I'll end out having two to three times as many cities as the next best civ. The reason they don't like me is that my turns take long (at least longer than their's do). For this reason I think there should be a screen for mass management, such as, a common queue for all cities to use as a building guideline. Each city can override this queue if need be. I realize you can set this up in a text file but it isn't dynamic for game play.

I must say, there are some really solid ideas floating around here. I especially like Yin26's idea of a menu 'disappearing' or docking when no longer needed. The game should be cutomizable to allow you to choose what is displayed and what becomes docked.

Another point I mentioned when suggestions were being asked way back when, was that, in CivNet, you could have the top 5 cities window up plus the city status window, etc and between turns they would stay up AND update themselves. Civ2-MGE didn't do this and I was very disappointed.

Wait, a shot in the dark. What if you could have sensors like Norton System Doctor that dock on the side of the screen and keep themselves updated between turns about critical information?

One last thought. Another bonus to Civ2 was that I could switch to other applications (including the desktop) between/during turns.

Key points; mass [city] management, customizable display with docking, and flexibity to switch to the OS.

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TitanTim

Icedan · October 18, 1999, 21:23

I had an idea a few months ago when I was playing Age of Empires.

While I was playing it I heard an "uh oh!". I realized I had left my ICQ running. To get to it I had to push Alt-Tab, but it took a wee while for me to get out then back in again. How about a cool little Icq flower being embedded to the bar within the game, this way I can stay in contact with people while playing the game. Think of the advantages of multiplayer with that? And just think, you would be the first to come up with the idea. (we'll let that be our little secret, cause we know who really came up with the idea hehehe). I can just see how many games out there that would use the same idea. Be the first! Make history. Yes this is a sign of making you do it.
Man, I can just imagine how cool that little flower would be. pillowed into the interface..

Icq forever! Screw AIM.

Icedan · October 18, 1999, 21:27

I think we should see how many votes we get on the Icq idea.

I'm going to try hard to make this possible!

I vote first so nga nga :Þ~~

*puts his hand up*

Probbka · October 18, 1999, 21:37

uh... why not just make the control bar (or whatever its called in windows) accesible while playing the game, instead of making it full-screen?

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Seig heil DOS!

probbka@yahoo.com

VIVE LA PROT!

Icedan · October 18, 1999, 21:41

Because! I don't want to know I am in Windows, I wanna know I am in Civ3! Besides, windows is ugly, full stop. Lets remove as much as we can please? so that we can get as much of Civ's screen as possible.

Don't argue with me, I always win

Probbka · October 18, 1999, 21:44

what do you mean, "I always win"???

you're just whining. it's barely feasible anyway (firaxis and icq would have to reach some sort of agreement), and i prefer games in which i can access windows (as i usually am on aim, icq, apolyton and playing civ2). you have yet to make a strong argument. don't proclaim victory till the battle is over, my friend.

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Seig heil DOS!

probbka@yahoo.com

VIVE LA PROT!

yin26 · October 18, 1999, 21:44

I meant to say that the idea of a graphically evolving interface is great! Something like that really adds so much more meaning to advancing to the next stage--lots of possibilities there.

As for a city status interface, PLEASE look at Master of Orion 2, which was already the basis for much of SMAC: You could easily sort your cities by production, population, money, etc. You could also move populations between planets in the same system without leaving that screen. If Civ3 ends up using regions, for example, the exact same thing could be applied here--or units could just be told to move between cities all from the city status screen (imagine moving 37 units just from the city status screen!). Of course, encounters with the enemy would still have to be dealt with on the main screen, unlike in MOO2 where population transfers in the same system were basically invisible (which was nice, actually). A "sort by unit" function coupled with a slide bar "send units to X city" would make this aspect much easier.

Oh, and before I forget, the Diplomacy screen in SMAC doesn't allow you to see the map while negotiating over which cities to trade, attack, etc. (Well, you could kind of cheeze your way to the map...) Obviously if such diplomatic options will come with Civ3, we'll need to be able to drop down to the map and be able to examine information before making trades or deciding where to attack.

Along with the spreadsheet idea mentioned above, a person would be able to do and see a hell of a lot with very little effort and distraction. The Holy Grail of Interface Design.

[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited October 18, 1999).]

Icedan · October 18, 1999, 22:01

The battle is over, when I win.

Mo · October 18, 1999, 22:29

I think that the most important thing in designing the interface should be that it is efficant. A right click menu for cities/regions might be helpful. In this menu you should be able to change production, activate a unit, give the governor commands like squash drone riot, change to military production. One thing that I liked about the AC interface was the list of events that happened during the turn and the power graphs at the bottom. The F1 city status screen should include any random events happening in a city and the defenses in the city. Also in the military status screen you should be able to click on one of your unit models an find out were the active ones are stationed.
One radical idea, which might be good or might not is to eliminate the city status screen. When you click on a city it would atomaticaly show you on the main map how the workers are distributed throughout the city radius. The normal interface bar would then change and show production, food sorage, improvments and population. This might be too much for the interface bar though.

ottok · October 19, 1999, 00:57

my english wery "#¤#%¤%/%&" but althoug!
... to this i say:
I want: Nicer,Bigger and better game!

ottok · October 19, 1999, 00:57

my english wery "#¤#%¤%/%&" but althoug!
... to this i say:
I want: Nicer,Bigger and better game!

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MIKA TOMMI
MIKA HÄKKINEN
AT CHAMPIONS

yin26 · October 19, 1999, 10:02

Another game to look at for easy access to unit production, etc., is HoMM2 (sorry, I don't have HoMM3 yet). Since that game is primarily all about cranking out the largest number of the most powerful units your cities/castles can make, they did a good job giving you quick access to rush buys, hero locations, etc. HoMM2 + MOO2 = Some great interface stuff (none of it pretty or compact--they violate my "hide the interface" rule--but VERY simple and effective).
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited October 19, 1999).]

valmont · October 19, 1999, 11:31

I would like to be able to do everything - and I mean everything - from the keyboard. Including adjusting tax rates, assigning workers to terrain, selecting what to build. I perform these actions every turn! I would like to throw my mouse in the garbage where it belongs and still be able to play civ3.