Reply With Quote50 years
Ok folks. Thought I'd see if u guys are willing to help me improve my gameplay.
IIRC it's standard to post opening screenie along with 50 and 100 years correct?
I'm playing Japan on a large map. I like to be surprised so all settings are random.
Warlord's the difficulty level.
Also it has been a while since I played this game so I've forgotten some tips and tricks so bear with me :P
Ok mock away...
50 years
100 years
I plan to settle those islands to south once I get map making.
I figure I can place two maybe three cities on the larger island on the west side.
Any recommendations for placements and your reasons?
I don't have time for a full analysis (at work), but what strikes in my eye first, is the horrible place you chose for your capital. Here are some tips:
First, if ocean is within the city radius, make the city coastal. You waste food. Ocean gives only one food without a harbor, but you can build harbors only in coastal cities. You have six ocean tiles within the city radius, all of which will produce only one food till end of the game.
And second, never -ever- plonk a city on a cattle resource. That hurts, and bigtime. Even more, it's a crime and the Civ police should throw you in jail for it. ONE cattle is great. TWO cattles are a godsent, one of the best starting constellations you can get. But building the city on the cow you destroy it, it won't give you any benefits anymore.
I would have moved the settler north on the forest (not on the shielded grassland either) and built my city there.
Another remark I have from the first view, you haven't enough cities. Having that little space you have, you are enforced to build more dense. Squeeze as much out of the land you have as you can. If you are not a friend of building with overlap, consider to build camps, i.e. temporary cities without much improvements, which will be disbanded in the industrial age.
Oh, and building the pyramids with only 4 cities on the landmass is somewhat a wastage, too. All you get from is is 4 free granaries, which cost 4x60=240 shields. The pyramids cost way more. Granted, they'd be without upkeep, but still...
Yes you want to have that whale in your border and be able to make a harbor. You could then be in a position to get Collossus and Lighouse.
Those would be big for this map. I would have to check to see that I did not make wonders that would trip a GA. I can live with a despotic GA, but not with just a few cities.
I like CxxC, but that tiny space requires a very careful layout to use as many tile as you can and get an extra city up. I would have to think hard about an ICS layout.
You will have you hands full on this map, good luck.
Settling on the Cow is bad play. Making an expensive wonder with little use is bad play. Placing cities too wide using the small space is bad play. You have way too few Workers. Other than that, you seem ok.
I think 6 cities would fit easily, perhaps more depending on the pattern. Can you post the 4000 BC save, so we can toy around with it?
Seriously. Kung freaking fu.
Why not settle on the shielded coastal grassland?Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I would have moved the settler north on the forest (not on the shielded grassland either) and built my city there.
Settling on the forest on the tip of the landmass, I would do that if I was seafaring but less likely if I was Japan.
I would want my capital to have some land tiles so it has some production.
Just curious why not settle on the shielded coastal grassland.
Let Them Eat Cake
Since you already have Iron, you can go ahead and settle around the horses first. Otherwise, I would want to settle the Iron island first, Iron is so very important--I may do that anyway just to secure a 2nd source.Originally posted by Barinthus
I plan to settle those islands to south once I get map making.
I figure I can place two maybe three cities on the larger island on the west side.
Any recommendations for placements and your reasons?
At Warlord though, you probably don't have to worry about the AI getting those nearby islands before you, so it doesn't matter which one you settle first.
I would avoid settling within 1 tile of the volcano, just 'cause I'm paranoid.
As was said by others, don't found a city on the cows.
The big island there is nice, horses, two cows, sugar. mmm. You're also lucky to have two Irons nearby.
On this map, I'd go for Philosophy first and get Map Making as my free tech.
Let Them Eat Cake
If you settle on a bonus grass, you don't get the extra shield until A) the city is at size 7+ and B) you are out of despotism. That's quite a long while to effectively not have that bonus shield available.Originally posted by Mace
Why not settle on the shielded coastal grassland?
I think it may matter about which one you settle first as rank corruption will be impacted. True I tend to not think about that all that much, but......
founding shot
Founding your capital directly on a cow tile
I've have moved it 8 and founded there.
50 year screen shot:
Yet more bad news about the chosen starting location.
My city spots on the starting island would have been:
Capital: 8 starting location on forest
First settler: 3-6-6 from capital on Tobaco next to fish
Second settler: 2-2-1 from capital on Jungle that takes in the moutains.
Third settler: 2-2-2 That tobaco city on hills and coastal
1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
Templar Science Minister
AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now. :mad:
I personally would not play on a map setting like this...there's no fresh water!
One OS to rule them all,
One OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.
This is true, but I don't know...that kind of start always bothers me. I know the value of an early extra shield but it's hard for me to justify it given Japan...Originally posted by Kloreep
If you settle on a bonus grass, you don't get the extra shield until A) the city is at size 7+ and B) you are out of despotism. That's quite a long while to effectively not have that bonus shield available.
Seafaring civ, I would start up there without a doubt...
Well I edited this post, because the more I look at it the more I agree with you and jocunn. With such a small land area you would really have to take in a lot of sea tiles on your cities anyway, in order to make max use of the land tiles.
Founding 3-3 from the bananas would take in all the mountains too. If you settled on the shielded grass that would make that spacing a problem.
Last edited by Mace; June 15, 2005 at 18:08.
Let Them Eat Cake
thanks guys for your advice and even scoldings
Normally I don't believe in restarting on a map but for my learning benefit I will replay this map.
joncnunn - I'm not sure if I understood you - 3-6-6? 2... ohh numpad got it.
You suggested first settler to settle on a tobacco tile - wouldn't that cause me to lose its benefits like others scolded me re: founding my first city on cattle? I'll need to go back to the game and review terrain value of tobacco and cattle to see what's the difference there.
I used to be picky about avoiding overlappings but now I want to explore that strategy so I'm open to it.Originally posted by Sir Ralph
If you are not a friend of building with overlap, consider to build camps, i.e. temporary cities without much improvements, which will be disbanded in the industrial age.
Yeah I realized that not all wonders are map wide after I finished 100th turn - I need to review which are limited to the same landmass and which are not.Oh, and building the pyramids with only 4 cities on the landmass is somewhat a wastage, too. All you get from is is 4 free granaries, which cost 4x60=240 shields. The pyramids cost way more. Granted, they'd be without upkeep, but still...
If you do want to build wonder(s), with that map you have there I would consider the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus.
Your capital, with all those sea tiles, could be a "mega-beaker" city if you put Colossus, then later Copernicus in it.
I would try to build harbors and marketplaces pretty early on if possible. You won't regret it on that map.
Is that an Arch map? Looks like it.
I once had a great game on Emperor where I played Carthage. The map was VERY similar to what you've got there. It was an Archipeligo 80% map IIRC. I went to Republic asap and stayed there.
I was able to have enough trade arrows (thanks to harbors and markets) going to have enough gold to maintain a large military, even when first switching to Republic. Sometimes that's a problem because of Republic's unit support.
I developed large island empire by building a couple of galleys and having a steady stream of settlers/numidian merc's going out to settle.
In tech I went for philos. first and map making as the free tech. Getting map mak. allowed me to out-REX the AI to the islands. That'll be important for you on your map.
Later I developed a "rapid reaction force" of military units based on ships at ready to speed to an island that was in trouble. Worked ok. Got a space race win.
good luck with it. Post later pics or saves if ya want.
Let Them Eat Cake
You lose food/shield bonuses, but not trade bonusesOriginally posted by Barinthus
You suggested first settler to settle on a tobacco tile - wouldn't that cause me to lose its benefits like others scolded me re: founding my first city on cattle? I'll need to go back to the game and review terrain value of tobacco and cattle to see what's the difference there.
Ok here's 4000 BC save
Thanks, Mace, for your suggestions. I will try those.
ok second try - 50 yrs
100yrs
I would stick 7 cities on that island. I would not build a granary in a size 5 with no river and no irrigatable food bonus. A size 4 either.
At this level you can get the Lighthouse in a second city and let the one city with food bonus make all settlers and workers. This makes it so you do not need so much in the way of lux as it will not get real large for some time.
You have no fresh water so all will eventually need aqua to get at least to size 7 (for support).
Loaded the save, and played a bit. Notes below.
Moved the first Settler 6 to the Hill, which made the city pattern a bit crowded for my taste. It was my original idea to go settle there, so I just did it. The number of cities would have been smaller on a peninsula.
Used the Forest on the tip of the island to speed up a build, before placing a city there.
Made two Temples, for there was nothing else to build at that time. At least I do not have to worry about culture in this game, ever again...
Made a Granary in the capital, and building more Granaries. I might be doing different things, but I saw no point in many units before I had the ships to move them. Besides, it will be good to have Granaries ready after Aqueducts are built.
Research started with Pottery (obviously?). After that the island was explored, so I knew it had to be directed straight towards MapMaking.
On turn 50, meeting with Germany, exchanging techs.
The plan is to make Settlers in other cities now, as Kyoto will start the Colossus soon.
Seriously. Kung freaking fu.
Sorry for the off-topic post, but what graphics are you using, Modo?
@Sabre2th That is Rhye's terrain, with SnOOpy's Marshes added (not on the screenie). Mines are by Niessuh (can be found here at poly), borders by someone at CFC (I do not remember who, sorry).
Back to the game:
After meeting Spain and Rome, some serious tech trading occured, leaving all AIs at 0 Gold, and Japan the tech leader of the world. This was later repeated with all newly met AIs that had any cash.
The Curraghs found some good islands to settle, luxuries that will probably have to be conquered, and many new contacts. All AIs except Spain are very backward. Spain is just backward.
On turn 73, the Colossus is completed. MapMaking in 2 turns, which means the Great Lighthouse will be available right on cue. All cities that can be, are switched to Harbors.
MapMaking produced a Scientific Great Leader. Now, that is perfect timing. The Great Lighthouse was rushed, obviously.
On turn 81, Philosophy is researched. I pick up the most expensive tech (in this case: Construction) for free, and get yet another SGL. This one was used to rush the Mausoleum of Mausollos. Next research goal: Code of Laws.
Lots of building, and exploring. Two cities put down on the southern island, a third one just about to be ready. Somewhere on the way Code of Laws was researched, and Republic started.
On turn 99 the Romans come demanding technology. I laugh, they declare. No big deal, as they still lack MapMaking...
As you can see, I put 7 cities on the main island, and am already settling the second large one. I deliberately hold to MapMaking, to have a head start on claiming land overseas. I have many ships, and many Workers, but still no credible army (relying on ships to hold off invasions, if any should come). You can see that most tiles are already improved.
Seriously. Kung freaking fu.
Thanks for the response, Modo. I've been looking to revamp my terrain...I'm getting bored with the basic sn00py set I have now.
I'll take a crack at the .sav once I fiddle with these graphics a bit
Never the less, this is a much better land that what I started with in my 8 Player game as the Incans. However this island does feature less land than that did.
Actually as lack of fresh water maps go, this one is actually pretty good; there's no plains. Just grassland and mountains. (Some of the grassland hidden by jungle) There's even 2 cows. So I probably wouldn't mind this start on Monarch or below.
For emperor level, I'd want to be playing a Seafaring civ for this.
On Demigod and above, I'd be restarting mostly because it's an archepello map.
Originally posted by justjake73
I personally would not play on a map setting like this...there's no fresh water!
1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
Templar Science Minister
AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now. :mad:
Were you the one who had the "Inca with horrid start location" thread? That was pretty bad...Originally posted by joncnunn
Never the less, this is a much better land that what I started with in my 8 Player game as the Incans.
I have d/l'ed this 4000BC sav and plan to play it a little.
Let Them Eat Cake
Cool
One thing for sure you expand faster than I do
Build Granaries in your core cities, and make many Workers to have all useful tiles improved quickly. This works almost regardless of city spacing. Almost, because placing cities closer means you save a turn or two on Settler movement (per city).Originally posted by Barinthus
One thing for sure you expand faster than I do
Seriously. Kung freaking fu.
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