Reply With QuoteIt's not necesserily connected but I heard a couple days ago that of all the murderers in Israel that were released ahead of time, only one commited another murder.
16-year-old confesses to brutal murder
JPost.com Staff, THE JERUSALEM POST May. 28, 2005
The 16-year-old suspect in the brutal Rehovot strangling murder of 15-year-old Ma'ayan Sapir confessed on Saturday morning, reported Army Radio.
The suspect was on vacation from a boarding facility for criminal youth, and appearantly the meeting between him and Sapir, a tenth-grade student, was random.
Local police sources said Saturday that the suspect is known to them through multiple previous criminal offenses. He was arrested at his house early Saturday morning after witnesses reported having seen him in the area of the murder.
Sapir's body was discovered Friday night in a school courtyard by a group of youths. Her body was naked, with signs of massive violence on her upper body and neck. Police later confirmed that Sapir had been strangled to death.
Sapir's body was identified Saturday morning, when her mother called to complain to police that her daughter had gone out at night and not returned by morning.
Sapir was described as an excellant student and a member of an old and well-respected local family.
Police are currently investigating whether Sapir was sexually assaulted.
I think that it is horrible that the police doesn't keep track of known offenders as it should and allows them too much freedom.
Frankly, a good portion of murders in Israel are performed not only by repeat offenders, but usually by criminals who get prison vacation.
I think it is rediculous that people who serve time for battery and murder get vacations from prison.
While it is very humane, their verdict is not very long in any case, since judges give pathetically short verdicts in Israel, and then parole boards always shorten them. So there's no practical need for a vacation for maniacs, since they're out of prison in a jiffy any way.
I generally think the legal system in Israel is too damn lax. No one is afraid of going to jail, because it is short, and not even one bit unpleasant, as they all have cable TV and classes and what not.
It is time to get priorities straight and put the rights of violent crimes victims and their security prior to the comfort of violent maniacs.
R.I.P Maayan.
It's not necesserily connected but I heard a couple days ago that of all the murderers in Israel that were released ahead of time, only one commited another murder.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.
How about the recent murder of Judge Azar, that was committed by a murderer on vacation?
Vacation from prison?
What kind of stupidity is that?
ACK!
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He never buys... any smokes.
The Replacements
Surely it's very stressfull, being in prison. A guy needs to wind down occasionally. I mean, if a serial rapist doesn't get his, hum, fix, he'll surely suffer from all sorts of serious psychological problems as a result, and his life will be ruined. Cable tv can only ease so much.
But the thread title baffles me. Is there such a thing as necessary murder?
I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"
Tatt: It's alright when the Goyim are killing each other off
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OMG ALL THE JEWS THINK THAT EVERYONE ELSE IS INFERIOR LOL.
Moving right along, The guy is an idiot, and an *******, and a perfect product of an education system that fails at teaching respect to other human being against an onslaught of other content from media and advertising. Let us not forget this. The murderer, even though a sentient human being is a product, or rather, a failure of our society. A symptom of a problem we must fix.
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
I admit that it is a horrible thing that this guy has done, but what is his crime history ? Is he a known murdere and rapist or have he been shoplifting; stealing cars; beating people to vegetables or what ?
Is there any evidence that this guy was sure to commit a murder and therefore it would have been prudent to throw away the key to his cell ?
Your story gives a high rate on frontpage score, but lacks a lot of details.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
Siro, that story is so common it's sad. Hardcore criminals doing some outrageous crap like this, while on vacation from prison.... yeah.. I know about that..
You know the people who release prisoners on vacations shoudl be held accountable for actions like these, because clearly they are not yet suitable for vacations if they need to have one to begin with. They should be responsible, they'd think really hard if someone is OK to be released on few days out. I mean, when it's your ass on the line, you get more professional instead of 'well it's their RIGHT, i don't give a crap'.
In here, when it comes to murders, the criminals are usually the same who do it. It's a smaller circle for murders, but you see, when you have vacations, when you get out in few years, you have the time to murder more than few people. And what do the prison officials od about it, when KNOWINGLY releasing still very dangeorus killer? Nothing. They can't. I'd hate to have a job where I release someone back to society, knowing that odds are that person will kill someone in matter of weeks.
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
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He wasn't a murderer at that point. Just a juvenile deliquent. Those are dime a dozen in most modern countries.
With regards to handling the aftermath of the above mentioned problem:
Sometimes, I think that the only way to treat these people is by breaking them apart and rebuilding them. Sort of a clockwork orange solution. The deeper you have to dig for the 'naive' soul of a person, the bigger the problem is, and the more he'll be tough to rehabilitate in any form.
ah ok. I thought he had killed before... well anyway.. I don't know man.. to give juveniles vacation.. I can't say NO by default.. or even to all criminals in real prisons.. I think it could be used as a motivational tool for prisoners to make some goals, like rewarding them with vacations. Of course if they are dangerous, then no vacation.
as far as how to fixing these people up.. I don't know. I feel there are people who can be fixed, and then there are people who can't be fixed. LIke if you have a violent criminal.. and you supposedly fix them and they seem OK.. or better at least, and they have 'a relapse', it means someone is going to pay for it. When alcoholics have relapses, it usually just means they get wasted, have some episodes and they just mess their own lives. I'm not sure if we can risk it on with real people when we are talking about very violent criminals. I mean criminals who are clearly sick in the head, doing violent crimes because they like violense.
I feel that there are people who can't be fixed. What to do with those? I don't know. Treat them but keep them away from society as long as they are dangerous, if they are dangerous forever, them keep them away forever. No one should pay for their sickness with their own health. Maybe prison isn't the answer for genuinely sick violent people though.
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
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"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
Was there anything in his history that told that this guy would kill someone ?
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
What difference does that make? What kind of bassackwards rule is prison vacation?
"I predict your ignore will rival Ben's" - Ecofarm
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Burn him for biomass
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
WTF!? Prison Vacation!? The point of prison is supposed to be that you are incarcerated!
"I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer
"I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand
Incinerated
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
Yup. you are right. All that are sentenced to spend time in prison are worthless. why even bother to keep them in prison - no a quick execution is much better, then we for certain know that they won't do any harm.Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
What difference does that make? What kind of bassackwards rule is prison vacation?
We could even reduce the risk of crime by letting all people taking regular tests that checks if some people are possible lawbreakers and execute them just to be sure.
If you put on a good behavior in prison you may get a leave of 24hours or such sometime in the future. It is used on the one hand as an incentive for behavioral adjustment inside prison and on the other hand for facilitating future social adjustment once out of prison.
BlackCat: What the hell are you babbling about?
"I predict your ignore will rival Ben's" - Ecofarm
^ The Poly equivalent of:
"I hope you can see this 'cause I'm [flipping you off] as hard as I can" - Ignignokt the Mooninite
There's a HUGE difference between someone finishing their time, and getting a ****ing vacation from prison.
And I'm staunchly anti-Death Penalty, ass
"I predict your ignore will rival Ben's" - Ecofarm
^ The Poly equivalent of:
"I hope you can see this 'cause I'm [flipping you off] as hard as I can" - Ignignokt the Mooninite
@Fab
Common rehab procedures for prisoners is to let them get out in the society for short times. It isn't "vacation" but an effort to give them a better chance to get a life after prison.
Noone is "cured" just because they have finished their full sentence, and if you go straight from prison to common life there are a pretty high risk that you are back in prison in short time. Is it that you want ?
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
that's not a question of which one you want. Cured prisoner or someone who never was cured.
The question is if we should let out the violent criminals who are danger to the citizens. My answer is NO. Dangerous one, keep them locked up. The ones that are not so dangerous to other people and try, sure, why not.
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
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"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
That is what halfway houses are for.Originally posted by BlackCat
@Fab
Common rehab procedures for prisoners is to let them get out in the society for short times. It isn't "vacation" but an effort to give them a better chance to get a life after prison.
Noone is "cured" just because they have finished their full sentence, and if you go straight from prison to common life there are a pretty high risk that you are back in prison in short time. Is it that you want ?
Jesus rides beside me,
He never buys... any smokes.
The Replacements
You are right, and that is why I asked for this persons criminal history.Originally posted by Pekka
that's not a question of which one you want. Cured prisoner or someone who never was cured.
The question is if we should let out the violent criminals who are danger to the citizens. My answer is NO. Dangerous one, keep them locked up. The ones that are not so dangerous to other people and try, sure, why not.
So I'm a bad person because I think someone who is put in jail for a certain amount of time should stay in jail for said amount of time?Originally posted by BlackCat
Noone is "cured" just because they have finished their full sentence, and if you go straight from prison to common life there are a pretty high risk that you are back in prison in short time. Is it that you want ?
What I don't want is someone who will take full advantage of being on the outside because they know they'll have to go back in after the "vacation" is over.
"I predict your ignore will rival Ben's" - Ecofarm
^ The Poly equivalent of:
"I hope you can see this 'cause I'm [flipping you off] as hard as I can" - Ignignokt the Mooninite
emp fab, I don't think the vacations are really that long. Maybe hte said 24 hours or few days max, and you get them rarely. I mean, if used as rewards, that's something to look forward to and maybe keeps someone motivated.. and it's true that if you get institutionalized, it's more difficult to return back to society, more likely to fail.
But... I'm still against risks like violent criminals getting out on vacations. Everyone else, who is not physical threat to other people, I'd let them have vacations every now and then. Like few times a year or so. A day or two or so.. as a reward only. And break the trust once, never get a new chance at them.
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
Different names, same purpose.Originally posted by Tuberski
That is what halfway houses are for.
Certainly, I think that this murder is a tragedy, but I just don't buy the headline that it happend because a known murderer had a vacation or even that there was a high risk that he would do it.
In no way, I agree that people sentenced should take the full punishment, but I also think that when they are nearing the end of their sentence, different measures should be made so they have a chance to cope with the change from prison to normal life.Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
So I'm a bad person because I think someone who is put in jail for a certain amount of time should stay in jail for said amount of time?
Meaning what ?What I don't want is someone who will take full advantage of being on the outside because they know they'll have to go back in after the "vacation" is over.
So...if I read you right...that even though he did this...and did it while given a break (A BREAK?!) from incarceration...that things wouldn't have been better if he was in prison, and that this vacation for him was ok?Originally posted by BlackCat
Certainly, I think that this murder is a tragedy, but I just don't buy the headline that it happend because a known murderer had a vacation or even that there was a high risk that he would do it.
This is by far the strangest position to take in an argument. Part of me strongly thinks you're trolling.
"I predict your ignore will rival Ben's" - Ecofarm
^ The Poly equivalent of:
"I hope you can see this 'cause I'm [flipping you off] as hard as I can" - Ignignokt the Mooninite
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