Googlie's inspecting the troops right now, and therefore unavaliable to post the planning thread for MY 2145. So I did it instead as you can see.
Please shoot away any suggestions you have!
I just had a look at the turn and I have two suggestions for worker replacements.
Currently working SC3 is working a 2-2-0 crater tile, and SC4 working a 2-2-1 crater tile. Problem is that extra energy of SC4's 2-2-1 tile is lost due to inefficiency. Howver it wouldn't be lost of the tile was worked by SC3! Therefore I'd like to propose to switch those workers, and gain an extra credit per year.
Also now the former on the Río Grande has finished farming that rolling&rainy tile. It now is a rather productive 3-1-1 tile, leading to fast growth. Seeing that Rio Grande base is only size 1, while Fort Buster is already size 2 and thus has less need to grow, may I suggest switching the 3-1-1 and 1-3-0 mineral bonus tile between the workers of those bases? Result: RG: fast growth. FB: high production.
Also, I've got a question. I see we have 3 probe teams and are building two more. What will be the missions of those probe teams?
Somewhere Googlie pondered whether it would be possible to rushbuild the MCC the turn we research DocIni, ie in four years.
I haven't done any tests, but if you start from the following facts:
a) Using the two artifacts, we still need 200 minerals.
b) Our total factional mineral production (support not included) is 45 minerals per year.
So even if all bases started constructing crawlers next year, which I assume cannot be done, we'd still need at least five turns (5*45>200).
Googlie calling in from the field (actually, am now in Palm Springs, but am on Dial-up for 2 days, 'cos the DSL contarct was from Nov 1 to March 31, and can't be advanced)
No problem with re-allocating the workers. I moved the RG and FB ones around to get that earlier year for the tech, but didn't think to experiment with the SC3/SC4 placements. We need to make sure, though, that we don't regress to 2149 for Doc Init
Re the probes - they're just placements right now. We might lose 1 when we try Morgan infiltration - and we do need to have Crypteia in all our bases to protect us from others' infiltration.
G (lolling around in 24 degree weather !!)
Ah I see I didn't know that.Originally posted by Googlie
No problem with re-allocating the workers. I moved the RG and FB ones around to get that earlier year for the tech,
I just had a close look, and it appears that, while switching the RG/FB workers changes a labs to a credit, switching the SC3/SC4 workers adds an extra labs, so the end result for labs is that they remain the same, and we'll still get the tech in four years.but didn't think to experiment with the SC3/SC4 placements. We need to make sure, though, that we don't regress to 2149 for Doc Init
Wow, great!G (lolling around in 24 degree weather !!)Here in Sparta Command, high in the mountains, it's rather cold.
the current pre-send will not launch on my PC, so I don't know where we stand on tactics/strategry. the world map looks good since we have sea borders, yet Yang still bothers me...as to an Morgan alliance, well you sleep with the devil. i'm inclined to covertly support the Gaians against Yang, probe Zak, and throw the PK's a little bone.
Do you mean you have succesfully unzipped the file, but SMAX is unable to open it, or are you unable to zip the file? I had the latter problem, because the file is for some reason zipped twice. To solve this, instead of "Extract to here", open the file with WinZip, then open the second file you then see with WinZip and then you'll see the unzipped save file to extract. I hope this explanation makes some sense - hard to explain without showing.Originally posted by Primus Pilus
the current pre-send will not launch on my PC,
Aha, a supporter of the Gaian Wing.as to an Morgan alliance, well you sleep with the devil. i'm inclined to covertly support the Gaians against Yang,What would you propose we do to make the Gaians more open and cooperative to us, and weaken their link with the Angels?
But Lal is Zak's master, and Lal doesn't want to answer our calls.probe Zak, and throw the PK's a little bone.
We have quite a few plans at the moment:
- Build more formers to build boreholes/farms/forests/whatever...
- Build more crawlers to harvest resources and hurry the Maritime Control Center.
- Build more probes to both defend ourselves and probe-attack others.
- Build transports and upgrade our rovers to impact to invade Zakharov. Upgrading the two 1-1-2s and the 2-1-2 would cost 170 credits. If we'd want to give them amphibious ability, it would be 30c extra for a total of 200.
- Possibly 40 energy if we'd want to switch to Fundamentalist, to easier infiltrate Morgan and invade Zakharov.
I hope I didn't forget an important plan.
In any case, we need to assign priorities to what we'll focus our resources first on. As you hopefully see, we don't have the credits or minerals to do all these things at once. For example, it would be wasteful IMO to build more probes while we don't yet have the transports to send them on missions, or build crawlers before we have decent terraformation (forests or mines) to let them harvest minerals.
i will try the unzip trick. it does seem to me that i've had this problem before.
i support the Gaians because they will pin-down Yang until we have Missile/Jet to successfully take him on.
if we invade Zak, are we truly prepared to take-on Lal too?
Yeah - I'm getting the turn from jtsisyoda in a file within a file (called "real game saves") and sometime I forget to save midturns and endturns in my regular "firaxis saves" folder (where I save the Gaians onward-passing turn)
Next turn we have a few formers needing new orders (particularly the 2 flanking OA's mine) Should they "gang-mine" for a 4 mineral mine on both (rocky tiles with a road) as originally planned, or redeploy to borehole somewhere?
Should Vladivostok's mineral special be mined or boreholed?
Should the min special tile between RG and FB be mined or forested (and with both nearby formers, or just the one?)
Personally I'd prefer a gang-mine right now.Originally posted by Googlie
Next turn we have a few formers needing new orders (particularly the 2 flanking OA's mine) Should they "gang-mine" for a 4 mineral mine on both (rocky tiles with a road) as originally planned, or redeploy to borehole somewhere?
Personally I'd prefer a mine here too. Building a borehole takes very long with that little formers, making us lose lots of turn advantage.Should Vladivostok's mineral special be mined or boreholed?
Btw, will the former on (66.10) move one tile east next turn, and the new VV former one tile north, so that they can both start roads on their tiles; allowing the VV former, when both roads are finished, to move directly to the mineral bonus tiles and start terraforming?
A mine or forest is both ok for me on the mineral bonus tile. Though for the former currently on Río Grande, how would you think about first letting it plant a forest on (55.13) before moving back into the crater?Should the min special tile between RG and FB be mined or forested (and with both nearby formers, or just the one?)
Btw, perhaps you were already planning this, but in case you were not, how about the following?
SC2 currently has a garrison unit on excess. How about moving one infantry to SC4, and then moving a SC4 garrison to FB. SC3 also will finish a hoplite. This frees both Warwag and Shinsengumi, as was your plan.
It'll take a few more turns before we have a transport in Vladivostok, so I was thinking: how about moving both rovers to (53.9)? Then MY 2146 Warwag can pop the unity pod on (54.8). If we'd get worms, Shinsengumi is immediately ready to help out Warwag.
The rovers could then proceed east to do the same with the pod on (66.16).
While looking at the turn, I also discovered a problem which may threaten us in seven-eight years. Namely SC4 & SC3 will grow to size 3 in respectively 7 & 8 years. We can only use two units per base as police, so we won't have any option to quell those drones but turn them into useless doctors.
Except building two colony pods in either SC3, SC4 and/or alternatively in SC2 and/or GH (two other size 3 bases - shrinking them would allow us to station the ogres elsewhere).
Two problems with building two CPs would of course be:
a) It means a delay in crawler production, and thus MCC construction.
b) Where would we found new bases?
Is there any chance we can get a hold of IntInt and police units by then?Originally posted by Maniac
While looking at the turn, I also discovered a problem which may threaten us in seven-eight years. Namely SC4 & SC3 will grow to size 3 in respectively 7 & 8 years. We can only use two units per base as police, so we won't have any option to quell those drones but turn them into useless doctors.
Except building two colony pods in either SC3, SC4 and/or alternatively in SC2 and/or GH (two other size 3 bases - shrinking them would allow us to station the ogres elsewhere).
Two problems with building two CPs would of course be:
a) It means a delay in crawler production, and thus MCC construction.
b) Where would we found new bases?
As far as getting techs are concerned, if we are resigning to the fact that we won't be researching much in the near future, wouldn't it be a nice idea to use one of the alien artifacts to get a free tech? We'd need more crawlers to complete the MCC, but no other faction will have the tech for some time anyway, and the MCC is probably not a priority for the builder factions is it? So am I safe to assume there is no panic?
I don't know how the game calculates just which tech you get from AA's, has there been research in this area? I assume there hasIt would be a dream to get IntInt from one of them.
Problem with "techadvancing" via an AA is that we'd need a network node in one of the bases., thus tying up a build for a few turns. And if we got Polysoft, or Opticals, we'd be really pissed off.
We've lots of candidates for new bases - northeast of RG, southeast of Vlad (we'd identified another coastal area there, if I'm not mistaken) as well as east and south of Minas Tirith.
Then, oc course, we could always send a trannie with a CP and a Crypteia over to an uninhabited piece of the Morgan landmass ........................
/me oohsThen, oc course, we could always send a trannie with a CP and a Crypteia over to an uninhabited piece of the Morgan landmass ........................
My, what a storm that'd rouse.
Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Thank you for helping us help you help us all!
You're probably right.Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
We'd need more crawlers to complete the MCC, but no other faction will have the tech for some time anyway, and the MCC is probably not a priority for the builder factions is it? So am I safe to assume there is no panic?
Problem is, except for another base on the Rio Grande, it would take years and years before those colony pods could reach their destination.Originally posted by Googlie
We've lots of candidates for new bases - northeast of RG, southeast of Vlad (we'd identified another coastal area there, if I'm not mistaken) as well as east and south of Minas Tirith.
Then, oc course, we could always send a trannie with a CP and a Crypteia over to an uninhabited piece of the Morgan landmass ........................
Sending off a CP to another continent could be fun though.
Important - Pleas read and comment
Turn Update
OK - opened the 2145 turn and executed the Morgan deal. Called Zak - he wanted to trade Biogen for Ind econ, but I countered with Soc Psych. Trade consumated.
He then offered a Pact. As I'm on dial-up right now, I didn't want to keep the turn open while I waited a few hours for concensus, so I accepted the Pact. We have the map for the Uni and PK territories as a result (and he has our map)
If, after discussion, the Junta concensus is that we shouldn't Pact - and thus expose our map to infiltrators of Zak (they'll get the map if they already have every tech that he has) - I'll replay the turn to that point and refuse the pact (and keep out of all discussions that might involve exploring the Uni-PK's territory until we have map infiltration - which in fact our next Zak probe would accomplish, as we currently now (after the Angels' trade) have every tech that he has)
So I'll hold off doing anything more with the turn until I've received some feedback
G.
Was declaring war on Yang a condition for the pact?
For me that would be the decisive factor to vote in favour or against a pact, seeing the recent Hivean military build-up.
How would you value a pact with the Zak on the long run? After all, we *are* still planning an incursion there are we not? That means we'll have to break that pact pretty soon. Not good as far as integrity is concerned.
Cake and grief counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test. Thank you for helping us help you help us all!
I assume we would then forget about the Zakharov invasion and focus our credits elsewhere. We can still change our mind about an invasion: no transport build yet, no units upgraded.
Edit: If we'd decide in favour of an invasion though, we could be in University Base in five years.
Now MY 2145 Vladivostok has no minerals accumulated, and produces 3 mins per year.
Thus MY 2148 VV would have nine minerals accumulated.
MY 2148 we research Doctrine: Initiative. We can change VV production to a cruiser transport of 40 mins.
We can then use the OA crawler, which I assume would be harvesting minerals on the mineral bonus mine, to hurry the cruiser transport production to 39 mins.
Only 1 min left to completion, so MY 2149 we can have the trannie ready. It can be filled with our 4 offensive units which by then can be nearby (we should forget about popping those pods then), and leave for Uni Base the same year.
MY 2150 it already arrives at Uni Base and the base can be taken.
Last edited by Maniac; November 2, 2004 at 16:50.
No war with Yang was necessary. It was actually Zak's first request when I called him, then after I refused, he suggested the Ind Econ for Biogenetics trade. After I asked for Soc Psych instead - which he accepted - he then offered Biogentics for our maps, which I refused. Then came the offer of a Pact (his mood was "co-operative") which I then accepted, pending Junta endorsement
My vote would be to go along with it, but remember to break the pact before our troop-laden transport leaves Vladivostok (all units in a pactmate's territory are returned to the nearest base when a pact is broken)
Oh, I thought you proposed to keep the pact and not attack Zak.Originally posted by Googlie
My vote would be to go along with it, but remember to break the pact before our troop-laden transport leaves Vladivostok (all units in a pactmate's territory are returned to the nearest base when a pact is broken)
If you'd suggest to go on with the invasion anyway, what's the point of a pact? Sure, we get map info immediately, but as you say, we can just steal that with a probe later. As Kassi says, by signing this pact and soon break it we'd then harm our integrity, and, as you say, possibly reveal our map to people probing Zak or Lal.
If you'd want the map to easier conduct an invasion, I had a look at the UoP base radius overlap, and updated the simulator with it. That info should suffice to succesfully perform an invasion AFAIK.
2145 moves
Background
- Accepted the Morgan trade upon opening
- Traded with Zak, but did not sign Pact with the Uni (turn integrity maintained - all other actions repeated pre and post aborting diplo choice)
- Build orders are open to suggestions before finalizing the turn
Diplomacy
- Accepted the trade with Morgan – Gene Splicing and Ethical Calculus for Ind Econ and 120 ec’s (8 per, over 15 years)
- Traded Ind Econ to the UoP for Social Psych, but refused a Pact with Zak
- Called Yang – sold Gene Splicing to him for 25 ec’s
- Treaty with the Angels. Put Gene Splicing (negotiating) in the diplo pouch
Unit Movement
- Hunter moved E x 1 and S x 1, stalled by fungus (but way east is clear, albeit fungussed)
- Invincible moved S x 1, SW x 1, S x 1 (to avoid the fungus) and W x 1, anchoring in a small bay. A road can be seen up the hillside
- Pegasus moved W x 2 then NW x 1
- Longstrider bivouacking outside SC2 moved to Sector Craterwest
- Hermes moved W x 3, heading back towards Vladivostok
- Workers in SC3 and SC4 re-allocated
- workers in RG and FB re-allocated
- 2 formers straddling OA commenced mining operations on 63:15 (NE)
- Former N of Vladivostok moved E x 1 and commenced roadbuilding – V’s former moved N x 1 and also commenced roadbuilding
- Former finishing farm on Rio Grande moves NW x 1 and commences tree-planting on 55:13
- Garrison scouts shuffled – SC2 to SC4, then SC4 to FB.
- Warwag and Shinsengumi moved to 53:9, just below pod, ready to pop next turn
Build Orders
- Vladivostok: Transport (will have 9 mins accumulated when Doc Init is discovered in 3 years, so no loss on changing to a cruiser transport at that time)
- Sector Craterwest: Colony Pod (6 turns, 1 before pop grows to 3)
- Sector Cratersouth: Colony Pod (6 turns, 3 before pop grows to 3)
- Rio Grande: Hoplite (3 turns – pop grows to 2 in 6)
- Santiago Citadel: Impact Speeder (reinforcements for the Uni campaign)
Last edited by Googlie; November 3, 2004 at 19:33.
2145 completed and the 2146 turn sent to the Gaians
Re the builds - I don't thibnk there's anything in these starts that will cause us grief (minerals penalties, in other words) if we change
Last edited by Googlie; November 3, 2004 at 19:32.
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