The Clash Forum Guestbook

[axi]

Welcome to the Clash of Civilisations Forum!

Are you a lurker? Are you an inactive Team member? Are you the sort of person that keeps track of Clash development but is too busy or too timid or simply has nothing special to contribute?

This thread is for you then. Feel free to declare your presence and to make any short comments you like on our work here. Knowing of your attention and your support to the project is valuable for the Team.

[Richard Bruns]

It would help us a lot for lurkers to give their opinion on various issues. Something as simple as a few yes/no answers from half a dozen people could really help us get a better idea of the popularity of various features or proposals. Lurkers could, without much effort at all, make sure that our plans for various things sound good. So please take a couple minutes to reply to these quick questions about what you want. You'll be helping us make sure we produce the game you want.

Edit: Added links to the models

1) We currently have the option to make two tech systems. One of them is the standard Civ2/Starcraft prerequisite based system. The other is structured more like an RPG character building system, where the abilities of the civ develop continuously over time as the civ gains experience doing things. Which system do you think would be more fun?

Look on the webpage under "Technology" for a description of the new model.

2) We are considering adding a detailed ecology model that changes the landscape in realistic ways, both naturally and in response to player and AI civ actions. Do you think this would be fun, or would you prefer a stable environment that you don't have to worry about?

3) How much detail do you want in the population model? Do you think it would add to the game if we modelled different ages seperately, or would you prefer to have an undifferentiated population mass?

4) What kind of map do you prefer? Would you like a cylander, donut, cube structure, or some other structure?

5) How much detail do you want in the military movements? Do you like moving units around the squares yourself, or would you like the option of a large scale operational combat system like the one in Axis and Allies?

For the main model, look at the website.

For a couple of the alternative combat options ideas, look here and here.

Those are the questions I can think of; other model leaders could probably ask some different questions about their models.

A collection of answers to those questions could really help us determine the direction we want to go in or what options are worth putting in.

Thanks for your time, and thanks for following the Clash project!

Mark, could you make this a sticky thread?
[This message has been edited by Richard Bruns (edited September 29, 2000).]

[Xuenay]

1) We currently have the option to make two tech systems. One of them is the standard Civ2/Starcraft prerequisite based system. The other is structured more like an RPG character building system, where the abilities of the civ develop continuously over time as the civ gains experience doing things. Which system do you think would be more fun?

1. RPG-like.

2. Depends on how much I'd have to worry about it. If I need to worry about it a little (like making sure that my cities dont pollute too much), it'd be okay. If I'd need to worry about it every turn, nah.

Why not make it optional?

3. As much detail as possible.

4. I'm not sure of what you mean.

5. Maybe a system like that in King Of Dragonpass?

------------------
"Now Lone Star, you will see that Evil will always triumph, because Good is Dumb!"
-- Dark Helmet

Moderator, Final Fantasy Alpha Boards

[Richard Bruns]

Thanks for posting, Xuenay.

For #4, I was basically asking how you think the world structure should be reflected in the map. For example, Civ2 had a cylander world because the maps connected at the sides but not the top. If you drew the map on a piece of paper and connected the edges that connect in the game, you get a cylander.

If the top of the map connects to the bottom and the sides connect, you get a world that would be a doughnut shape of you drew it on paper and connected it.

The other option is to have six flat maps that connect at the edges to form a cube. That could be a bit more difficult but it would create a more accurately shaped world.

I don't know anything about King of Dragonpass. How did the combat work in that game?

[Xuenay]

Ah. I'm not sure of what the cube-like approach would look like, but if produces a more accurate result, then by all means use it!

The battle system? Hmm, I dont think that the majority of people would like it, anyway. Too obscure.

------------------
"Now Lone Star, you will see that Evil will always triumph, because Good is Dumb!"
-- Dark Helmet

Moderator, Final Fantasy Alpha Boards

[Locutus]

Congratulations Richard & axi, it took more then a year but you finally convinced me to quit lurking (for the moment anyway) Keep in mind that I'm a real micromanagement freak so, more then the average civver, I'm tempted to go for the more complex systems.

1) RPG-like, I very much liked what I read about the tech model on the website.

2) Sounds cool to me, though I haven't had the time to read about the details of this.

3) At this point I'm not sure how a complicated model would add something to the game, but here too I must say that I haven't seen the details yet (where can I find those anyway?) so I can't really make a decision here.

4) IMHO the standard game should be a good-old cylander map, though it would be cool to at least have the option to turn X/Y-wrap on or off for scenarios or whatever (so you can play on donut or flat maps). Cubic maps sound interesting as well, though I fear one might loose the overview.

5) I'd like both! I'd like to be able to move around the units/taskforces myself and also to give general orders and have the AI take care of the details.

Well, that's all folks, I'll go back to lurking now (unless you have any more questions)

[Richard Bruns]

Thanks for posting, Locutus.

I'll edit my question post and put in links to all the models I asked about.

[roquijad]

Hi lurkers,

Here's a small poll for other models:

A) Clash population will be divided in social classes (the aristocracy, the clergy, etc). How many would you like to see in a typical game?

B) What social classes you think must be there in the typical whole-history game?

C) Being the ruler of your civ, do you want to have always a tight control of the civ's govt decisions or would you like to experience less control in regimes where the ruler isn't really all powerful in real life?

D) Do you find interesting/fun to play a "nomadic civ"? That is, a moving civ with no cities that could eventually settle down. For example, playing the germans as a nomadic tribe for a while and then settle at some point in history.

E) How internally stable you think empires should be along the thousands of years of play?

F) Do you think having disasters and deseases add fun to the game?

G) Do you find interesting/fun if the available techs aren't the same in each of your civ's provinces?

H) Do you like having population divided in ethnicities or you'd prefer the civ2-like approach where people is all homogeneous?

I) Do you like having to deal with internal conflicts such as struggles between religions, between ethnicities, between social classes?

J) How much do you care about historical accuracy in a 0-10 scale? 0=doesn't care.

K) How important you consider Clash being able to model non-historical scenarios such as fantasy games or sci-fi stuff?

L) Do you want to see pirates and the like in the game? If so, how detailed?

[axi]

Hey guys! Cool it! There are 7 posts from the team so far and 1 from an actual lurker. Don't you think we should let the guys express themselves on their own? (as if there are hordes of lurkers, anxious to post out there )

[Lord God Jinnai]

For those interested in the differnt types of models for maps look here: http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum21/H...tml?date=12:27

Anyway i'm posting this because there are some types of models that one might not think of normally proposed here that otherwise people won't vote on if they don't see it. There is my proposal based somewhat on a SimEarth model and another type i saw somewhere.

[Locutus]

Axi is right: cool it a little! The one reason that I'm lurking here is because I simply don't have the time to read through all those long threads with a lot of info I really don't want to know, let alone formulate my own replies. (Hell, if I had the time I might even volunteer as a programmer, I know Java and that seems to be a rare 'commodity' around here). Often I only have an hour a day or less to check out Apolyton and the CtP(II) Forums have my top priority. After that I usually check out the Apolyton Forum and if there's time left I lurk either at Off Topic, here at Clash or occasionally at Stories & Diplomacy or CivIII. So I have a hell of a time keeping up with the pace at which you guys are posting; reading a thread like the one Lord God Jinnai is linking to (and that's even a relatively short thread for Clash standards) is just not possible for me time-wise. So if you want me to look at certain proposals, keep them short like Richard Bruns and Roquijad did (as far as I'm concerned you'll be better off asking a lot of short questions then a few long ones). If I find the question interesting enough I will look for more information on that topic in the models on the webpage on in the thread you guys are linking to when I have the time. By now I've read most of the models on the webpage, so I know *something* about this game but I didn't have time for map-subjects yet (among other things).

Back to the questions.

I quickly browsed through the population model and I liked what I read so my answer to question 3 would now be: yes, go for detail. I'll read up on the other models some other time.

On to the new questions:

A) Well, I like the idea of social classes but you shouldn't have too many of them, that would only make me loose overview. So the number should IMHO probably be somewhere between 5 and 10 (but probably closer to 5 then to 10).

B) Well, the ones described in the government model sounded alright to me: clergy, military, upperclass/aristorcracy, lowerclass. I think there should probably also be a middle class and I don't think bureaucratic class is a must-have, it's a good addition but one *could* argue for cutting it if things need to be simplified or whatever.

C) I like the government model as described on the website, but make sure it's still fun. In Civ1/2 it was just annoying that the senate could prevent you from going to war with someone after you have made extensive preparations for this war. It was a good idea but the implementation plain s*cked IMO.

D) Hey, that sounds very cool! I've always found it to be one of the mayor downsides of Civ that such a thing wasn't possible, there are plenty of examples in history of nomadic civs that were succesfull and left their hallmark on history. However, I have never had any good idea's on how such a thing should be implemented though.

E) Well, I think that should largely depend on the quality of the AI. In other Civ-games (maybe with the exception of CtP in combination with the MedMod) the AI just isn't good enough to get a human player on his knees so a complicated model for empire-stability is really the only way to make these games at least slightly challenging. If the AI is capable of launching coordinated invasions (both from land and from sea) and actually pushes on and finishes off his enemies instead of letting them recover after each attack, then such a model should IMHO be less important. Of course, in large empires there should always be the risk of revolts or independence movements, but there should be ways to keep an empire together. World domination should be (very) difficult but not impossible.

F) Yes, this is completely removed in CtP and that's one of the main advantages Civ2 has over CtP (doesn't mean CtP still kicks Civ2's ass though ).

G) Yes, that would be very interesting and (hopefully) fun, though good infrastructure should be able to considerably speed the dissemination of technology both within and outside your own civ (this concept was recently introduced for CtP by a mod-maker - for dissemination of techs between civs that is - and I really like it).

H) Yes, I really like what I read about ethnicities in the social model.

I) Yes, if you have ethnicities, you can't go without this.

J) 9 - the standard game should be as historically accurate as possible without compromising the entertainment value; the game should still be fun, that's why they call it a game.

K) Personally I don't really care much for Fantasy. Sci-fi would be nice but should be top priority either. But it shouldn't be too difficult to extend the advances tree into the future and add new advances and units. To make really new features available such as a cybor g race or the colonization of space, that's a different story. Focus on history (up until halfway the 21st century or so) first.

L) Well, aren't pirates really what barbarians are in regular civs and what (IIRC) 'cultures' are in your game? I don't see how they should/could be modelled differently. Don't forget it's still a Civ game, you're modelling major events here, the importance of individual ships/people should be limited (though not entirely eliminated IMHO).

Man, my posts are getting just as long as those of you people
[This message has been edited by Locutus (edited September 30, 2000).]

[roquijad]

thanks for your input, Locutus!

[Beör]

Get's addictive doesn't it?

[Richard Bruns]

We are in the process of putting Glossaries and Summaries on the webpage so it should be easier for people to learn what is going on. The Javadoc html files are also being posted. Hopefully we can get organized enough for people with only one hour a day to be able to help out

[Locutus]

He, I noticed this is now a sticky thread, that means my posts here will be visible on the front-page until the end of time (or until this game is finished, which ever comes first)

Beör,
(Man, it must be annoying name to type that every time you login, I hope for you you're using cookies )

You're right, it does

Roquijad,

You're welcome.

Richard,

That sounds interesting, I'll keep an eye on that.
Well, it looks like you guys have got a long, long way to go then
[This message has been edited by Locutus (edited October 01, 2000).]