Reply With QuoteI use the editor, and so usually techs come a lot faster the way I play.
I was playing a game today and I noticed that when I got the ability to create fighters and bombers it was 2021. I am curious, is this generally the way it goes? Or do all you really good players get technologies even before it would have occured in the real world. I am wondering is there any thing I can do to speed up learning new techs? Other than devoting more money that is. Likewise, is there a way to keep your cities from growing too fast?
I use the editor, and so usually techs come a lot faster the way I play.
I use Posturepedic mattresses for a lifetime of temporary relief.
How do you use the editor?
Even at the highest level you can get all the tech before 2021 and even in a huge map, where you are trying to slow the tech rate down.
So yes a reasonable expectation would be to have bombers in the 1900's. If you are playing at the lowest level, you will actually take longer to get tech. This is because the AI will not be able to help you and you will have to do most of the research on your own.
What would you want your cities to slow down growing?
Originally posted by vmxa1
Even at the highest level you can get all the tech before 2021 and even in a huge map, where you are trying to slow the tech rate down.
So yes a reasonable expectation would be to have bombers in the 1900's. If you are playing at the lowest level, you will actually take longer to get tech. This is because the AI will not be able to help you and you will have to do most of the research on your own.
In what ways does the AI help players get the research that they need? Could you go into a little more detail? Thanks.
They help because you can trade other techs for your techs, thus increasing the speed of getting techs.
Because with some of them it seemed like I was going there every other turn to handle no food or unhappy workers. In some cases I had to restore order at 4 or 5 cities at once.Originally posted by Nuclear Master
What would you want your cities to slow down growing?
That means you're doing something wrong. It could be many possibilities. No/lacking MP, luxury slider, prolonged war, drafting, forced production, etc.
I think Warlord, huge map, 8 civs is the settings set that I found most closely resembled a real world tech timeline. On Monarch, my bombers typically come in the early 1500s.
As vmxa said, the key is how much research you have to do on your own and how much help you get from the AI. There are 83 techs, including all the optional ones. You start with 2, leaving 81 to be acquired. Let's assume for a moment you get no tech from huts (a minor effect anyway, unless you're expansionist) and research at an average, over the whole game, of 6 turns per tech. That's a pretty dang fast average research rate, and it places your discovery of Integrated Defense at 1996 AD. Remember, you haven't traded for a single tech from the AI, because you've been ahead of them the entire game.
Now, let's say you have seven opponents, and you trade for one tech per era per opponent. You now only have to research 53 techs and, at the same six turn average rate, discover ID in around 1640 AD.
Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui
With wars I try to end them as quick as I can, unless of course I am bound by a mutual protection pack. Forced production? You mean the workers really don't like it when you sacrifice them to pump out those units and/or city improvements. Who would have thought that the workers would take it so personal once I tell the advisor to get out my whip?Originally posted by Nuclear Master
That means you're doing something wrong. It could be many possibilities. No/lacking MP, luxury slider, prolonged war, drafting, forced production, etc.
Solomwi covered it. If you are able to trade for techs a few times, you do not have to research those. If you have more civs that know a given tech it makes it cheaper to research.Originally posted by I'mNowCivilized
In what ways does the AI help players get the research that they need? Could you go into a little more detail? Thanks.
At lower levels the AI will often not be able to research anything after the second tier of the ancient age before you. These means, you have to research the rest all alone.
You can get some helps still if you are not at war and sell techs for cash. This lets you research a bit faster.
One good indication that you are not really on top of things is if you play at Warlord or Chief and are not first to all or nearly all of the techs after the ancient age. Even if you are kicking the AI around, you still have more to learn (presuminig a decent location).
Yes this is not a good thing and probably you are in the wrong government for long wars or more likely you have not done the kind of job required to build up the empire.Originally posted by I'mNowCivilized
Because with some of them it seemed like I was going there every other turn to handle no food or unhappy workers. In some cases I had to restore order at 4 or 5 cities at once.
That is not to say it can't happen to anyone, but it should be rare and short lived.
Originally posted by vmxa1
Solomwi covered it. If you are able to trade for techs a few times, you do not have to research those. If you have more civs that know a given tech it makes it cheaper to research.
At lower levels the AI will often not be able to research anything after the second tier of the ancient age before you. These means, you have to research the rest all alone.
You can get some helps still if you are not at war and sell techs for cash. This lets you research a bit faster.
One good indication that you are not really on top of things is if you play at Warlord or Chief and are not first to all or nearly all of the techs after the ancient age. Even if you are kicking the AI around, you still have more to learn (presuminig a decent location).
Well, I was able to do that for a time being. And I always try for Great Library, I think that helps some. This was actually the first game where I realized what the sliders were and how you can move them. Even then I probably only had it about 40% approx. 2/3 of the time. I was prety much ahead on all or most of the techs during the better part of the game. Also something I tend to do alot of, maybe more of my share, is giving techs to my allies. But from the beginning of the game up until about the time I discovered fission I was way ahead on techs. Also I had all but about 5 wonders. And today was the first time I tried sabotaging. That works good, but it can get expensive. Is it possible that I was losing some of my techs to espionage. Is there a way to tell? I sure miss that Hunter-Seeker Algorithm. Oh, one more thing, by the time you get to magnetism and/or electricity, about how much money per turn are you pulling in? Oh also, I don't usually go after fascism or communism either.
What government are you usually in?
Once I get democracy I stay in that. But I believe I was in monarchy or feudalism when I started having my problems.
Generally, you want to go on a Despotism-> Republic route, and stop there if you have a non-religious civilization. If you have a religious civ, however, you could also go Despotism-> Republic-> Democracy.
Getting slightly OT here, but as of C3C, democracy is a subpar government, primarily due to republic's newfound unit support. Dem WW is a killer, while in republic it's highly manageable, and with a large militery, the added support costs can wipe out any corruption benefit.
Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui
First a mention has been made of Dem form of government. It can be very strong, I never use it. This is because I am loathed to switch a second time, even if I am religious. As was mentioned, it is bit less powerful in C3C.Originally posted by I'mNowCivilized
Also something I tend to do alot of, maybe more of my share, is giving techs to my allies. But from the beginning of the game up until about the time I discovered fission I was way ahead on techs. Also I had all but about 5 wonders. And today was the first time I tried sabotaging. That works good, but it can get expensive. Is it possible that I was losing some of my techs to espionage. Is there a way to tell? I sure miss that Hunter-Seeker Algorithm. Oh, one more thing, by the time you get to magnetism and/or electricity, about how much money per turn are you pulling in? Oh also, I don't usually go after fascism or communism either.
As to gifting techs, that is a complex subject. In some situations it is very useful. In the main I do not do it, but I am less of a trader than most and likely to be in ill favor with the AI late in the game.
Sabatoge is just the same to me. I rarely use it, but it does has it place. I think you can ignore espionage as an issue against you. If you have an embassy and are in either Rep or Dem it just is not going to happen.
The AI can gain in a hurry because it will trade it around for next to nothing at times and the cost of research goes down as others learn it.
I never pay much attention to how much income I am generating, only how much I need to put into lux and sci as a percentage. The thing is that as the game get deeper into the turns, you will have more and more structures and troops to pay maint on.
The later part of the game will find me holding larger and larger troop counts and eating more of my cash. I will be adding cities, but they will be corrupt and not be adding much and in fact will be eating up money until I get my temple and any other structures I feel I need. If it is a new city, it only needs a temple and maybe a harbor. If it is a large one I captured, I may need to put in more happy structures and use cash or disbands to rush it.
The income is dependant on so many things, map size and type and the terrain and level. Am I playing emperor or is it sid? Do I need to get into monarchy and stay there and build endless troops. Tight city spaces or what and on and on.
One thing that is common is to see many players just not get that empire efficient and build up. Look at many of the screenies over the last year or two and you will see stronger players with row after row of mines and not widely spaced cities. Look at the players that are struggling and see their land.
Big gaps in roads and many unimproved tiles, too much irrigation and they were too slow to get things going. Worker working hills first. Go look at some of the sid post by Drachen and Nahan and see what I mean. I remember those in particular.
Anyway I have looked at many games posted by players not quite happy about how things are going when they moved from Regent to Monarch or Mon to Emperor and the lack of workers and use of them is the most common failure.
Anyway without saves, it is just speculation.
Originally posted by vmxa1
First a mention has been made of Dem form of government. It can be very strong, I never use it. This is because I am loathed to switch a second time, even if I am religious. As was mentioned, it is bit less powerful in C3C.
As to gifting techs, that is a complex subject. In some situations it is very useful. In the main I do not do it, but I am less of a trader than most and likely to be in ill favor with the AI late in the game.
Sabatoge is just the same to me. I rarely use it, but it does has it place. I think you can ignore espionage as an issue against you. If you have an embassy and are in either Rep or Dem it just is not going to happen.
The AI can gain in a hurry because it will trade it around for next to nothing at times and the cost of research goes down as others learn it.
I never pay much attention to how much income I am generating, only how much I need to put into lux and sci as a percentage. The thing is that as the game get deeper into the turns, you will have more and more structures and troops to pay maint on.
The later part of the game will find me holding larger and larger troop counts and eating more of my cash. I will be adding cities, but they will be corrupt and not be adding much and in fact will be eating up money until I get my temple and any other structures I feel I need. If it is a new city, it only needs a temple and maybe a harbor. If it is a large one I captured, I may need to put in more happy structures and use cash or disbands to rush it.
The income is dependant on so many things, map size and type and the terrain and level. Am I playing emperor or is it sid? Do I need to get into monarchy and stay there and build endless troops. Tight city spaces or what and on and on.
One thing that is common is to see many players just not get that empire efficient and build up. Look at many of the screenies over the last year or two and you will see stronger players with row after row of mines and not widely spaced cities. Look at the players that are struggling and see their land.
Big gaps in roads and many unimproved tiles, too much irrigation and they were too slow to get things going. Worker working hills first. Go look at some of the sid post by Drachen and Nahan and see what I mean. I remember those in particular.
Anyway I have looked at many games posted by players not quite happy about how things are going when they moved from Regent to Monarch or Mon to Emperor and the lack of workers and use of them is the most common failure.
Anyway without saves, it is just speculation.
Two questions based on your comments. First how much should I trust workers decisions that I have automated? Do they generally do the right thing or is it better to micro-manage them?
Second, when are mines appropriate and when is irrigation appropriate?
I never automate workers. Look at what the AI does with its workers and you can see why.
I will irrigate wheat (if I have water). I may irrigate a cow in a pump city and tiles that cannot be mined. All others get mines until I am forced to irrigate to get the town growing again.
So you will see mines on most tiles, until cities are over size 12 for the most part. Then as metros run out of food I will start to replace some mines with irrigation. These metros, often do not need shields any longer anyway.
INC, you might want to check out the "Must Read" threads at the top of this forum.
In particular, you should read the "Winning Early" thread and then check out an excellent treatise on the early game by cracker (over at CFC).
Also, post a game save or two, with screenshots, preferably at say 1000BC and 10AD.
Lastly, play some AU games!!
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
Makes sense. I was curious because there were times when I would automate workers. Rather than going and doing what I thougt was the most logical thing they'd run off in the opposite direction.Originally posted by vmxa1
I never automate workers. Look at what the AI does with its workers and you can see why.
I will irrigate wheat (if I have water). I may irrigate a cow in a pump city and tiles that cannot be mined. All others get mines until I am forced to irrigate to get the town growing again.
So you will see mines on most tiles, until cities are over size 12 for the most part. Then as metros run out of food I will start to replace some mines with irrigation. These metros, often do not need shields any longer anyway.
Will do.Originally posted by Theseus
INC, you might want to check out the "Must Read" threads at the top of this forum.
In particular, you should read the "Winning Early" thread and then check out an excellent treatise on the early game by cracker (over at CFC).
Also, post a game save or two, with screenshots, preferably at say 1000BC and 10AD.
Lastly, play some AU games!!
I'll go read the "Winning Early" thread right now.
Something I just noticed was the Accelerated Production option in the New Game setup. Is it a good idea to have this turned on?
IMO it is not. It will alter the game and you will not be able to relate events and timings to other games.
It is intended to make the game go faster. This is fine for those that want that, but I would suggest that people not use it until they are beating emperor comfortably. This means to me that they have the game down.
If you, as you seem to, want to learn the nuances of the game, pick the brains of the experts here (and, here and there, a few of us hacks, too), and develop your skills, Accelerated Production should be considered a bad thing, at least until you have the game down, as vmxa said.
If, OTOH, you want to semi-veg out with a quick game focusing on cranking out units and crushing your enemy, AP fits the bill, from what I've read.
Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui
No "accelerated" it is then. Solomwi you are on target. I do want to learn all the nuances of this game. I want to know everything there is to know about it. I want to know what units you build when, and when in the game a particular thing is called for. I want to know when to plant forests and when to harvest them. When to raze a city or when to install a new governor. When to build markets, when to build courthouses. And I want to know when I order the construction of a certain thing, like a courthouse, what effect that has on the city. I'm sure you get the idea.
VMXA1, that is my goal to dominate this game at the hardest levels while making full use of all the features and functions. Hopefully, I can get to that point.
(BTW, just noticed your location. How are things at Knott's Berry Farm?)
Hot lately. If you want to do those things you are in a good place to get the information.
I would suggest you do a thread like a few others have here. Start one up and make a report every 40 turns or so. Post the starting save and the save at teh end of each report.
Players will look at what you are doing and make suggestions. I would make the reports detailed at first. Make a log to enter each thing you do in notepad so it can be posted later.
This is a technique I have used in Moo2 as well. It is really the only way to get precise information. A number of players started off on Warlord or Regent and did this and moved on to post how to smash emperor and even beyond after a few games.
Originally posted by vmxa1
I would suggest you do a thread like a few others have here. Start one up and make a report every 40 turns or so. Post the starting save and the save at teh end of each report.
Players will look at what you are doing and make suggestions. I would make the reports detailed at first. Make a log to enter each thing you do in notepad so it can be posted later.
This is a technique I have used in Moo2 as well. It is really the only way to get precise information. A number of players started off on Warlord or Regent and did this and moved on to post how to smash emperor and even beyond after a few games.
Ok, next game I will start a log. And keep others posted. Do I then put that info in this forum? I am presuming so, since this is the one for strategy.
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