Rules Proposal for Military Design

[xiaodave]

Originally posted by Rasputin
hehehehehehehe, perosnal biases as to how their nations look at mometn are coming into this !!!

AS i stated already , ithink popualtion is overrated and a simple solution was to set a max pop to be used in calculator, as someone said the law of diminishig returns so to speak. that way smaller nations joining wont be walked over so easliy.

A population ceiling would just penalize larger countries to the immediate benifit of the countries just under the ceiling. If you want a population ceiling the only fair one would be 5 million. Everybody completely equal.

Doing this and then using my claculator to come up with a NUMBER of points instead of size of military would work for me. Youd enter your details into calculator then SPEND those points to create your own military.

Essentially exactly how my system is designed to work. Though the numbers are kept relatively small so a calculator is not completely neccisary.

You would also need to spend Points on supply and logistics....

Supply and logistics are built in considerations and should be built in. After all nobody wants to roleplay the guy delivering a tanker full of field rations. I would say that you cant and should not deploy more than half your military outside your borders. Unless the rp is a WWII level conflict.

[xiaodave]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


Well, as long as you'e patient (i.e. as long as you can wait for the UN Report to come up again), it can be verified, and just excluding it would be grossly unfair to people who run nations without private sectors.

It wouldnt be grossly unfair, those bonuses are relatively small and meant to be so.

What is your country btw. Id like to look at it. I dont like the idea of trying to track down rotating sector reports but perhaps we can add another bonus to the list to balance things for countries without a private sector.

[Mr. President]

People's Federal Republic of Centralis

[xiaodave]

Heh, you will have one of the largest armies in the region with my system. Especially given that IT is your listed industry. (And that counts as your top private sector enterprise) Perhaps a 4pt bonus for total govornment control, ie: 100% tax rate, that seems to be the main determinate for not having a private sector. 4 points would make up the difference completely, and would make sense logically. Total government control over production would be ideal for supporting the military.

[Rasputin]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


Um... what? Please try to be more coherent this time.

pretty easy really...


please post your report, general... (your name) i havent seen one with no private industry...

[GeneralTacticus]

The People's Federal Republic of Centralis
"Science is the ultimate law."

UN Category: Left-Leaning College State
Civil Rights: Superb
Economy: Frightening P
olitical Freedoms: Good

Location: Apolyton

The People's Federal Republic of Centralis is a massive, safe nation, notable for its strong anti-business politics. Its hard-nosed population of 3.094 billion enjoy extensive civil freedoms, particularly in social issues, while business tends to be more regulated.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent government stops and the rest of society begins, but it juggles the competing demands of Education, Defence, and Commerce. The average income tax rate is 100%. Private enterprise is illegal, but for those in the know there is a slick and highly efficient black market in Information Technology.

The nation has opened its arms to an influx of refugees, organ donation is compulsory, major internet servers have acquired citizenship and are voting in national elections, and streakers swamp all public events in order to bare it all. Crime is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. Centralis's national animal is the Snowy Owl, which is also the nation's favorite main course, and its currency is the credit.

Note the bolded bit. A black market is not in any way the same thing as a legal private sector.

[Rasputin]

can we do a comparison relsut to see what the number look like using your system dave.....


Auldonina 137 pts...

now do we need to spend them on any sort of breakup, like half reserves etc or cna you just spend them all on NUKES for example...

not sure how you want to work this...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by xiaodave
Except alot of the strongest militaries in history have been from countries with low political and civil rights. USSR, Napoleanic France, Hitlers Germany, Japan. Countries like these would be the best bad guys in the game. It doesnt make sense to weaken thier military so potentially dramatically.

You are absolutely right that they had a huge military. They also had very bad economy. So that means

a) a country with bad economy can maintain a large military anyway
b) Maintaining a large military messes up the economy of a country
c) both of the above

Originally posted by xiaodave
I also thought about working the other indexes into the computation somehow. But I have yet to come up with a way that makes sense.

The NS FAQ said other factors affect economy a lot, but that is not the case in the actual game.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Rasputin
hehehehehehehe, perosnal biases as to how their nations look at mometn are coming into this !!!

This is also very applicable to you, Ras.

[GeneralTacticus]

You are absolutely right that they had a huge military. They also had very bad economy. So that means

a) a country with bad economy can maintain a large military anyway
b) Maintaining a large military messes up the economy of a country
c) both of the above

Actually, this is not entirely true; Nazi Germany did very well until they actually started losing the war (and given that their population centres were under constant bombardment by that stage, this is hardly surprising), in spite of the massive expenditure on the military that took place before the war.

However, it should be noted that in all of the cases xiaodave mentioned, there were factors at work besides the economy; in particular, Nazi Germany and Napoleonic France did very well because they had come up with new methods of organising armeis and fighting wars that worked much better than the previous ones. Meanwhile The Soviets had a lot of resources to draw upon to construct their army, and the Japanese had a strong miltiary tradition and weak, resource-rich neighbours, which allowed them to conquer the surrounding area and pillage them for their own benefit.

[xiaodave]

Originally posted by Rasputin
can we do a comparison relsut to see what the number look like using your system dave.....


Auldonina 137 pts...

now do we need to spend them on any sort of breakup, like half reserves etc or cna you just spend them all on NUKES for example...

not sure how you want to work this...

You can spend them any way you choose. Its a matter of personal taste and definately part of rp. Spending them all on nukes would be somewhat foolish, as using those removes your country from the rp, but if you really wanted to,...

[Rasputin]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


This is also very applicable to you, Ras.

Agreed

[Rasputin]

Originally posted by xiaodave


You can spend them any way you choose. Its a matter of personal taste and definately part of rp. Spending them all on nukes would be somewhat foolish, as using those removes your country from the rp, but if you really wanted to,...

i was only joking bout nukes amd actually thinking of not havingany at all...

But perhaps it should be some sort of rule that you have to have aminimum number of reservists of some sort

[Squeblish Nef?]

I don't think it makes any sense that there are 3 indicators in the game but only one of them is used. In fact, it does not make any sense at all for a very restrictive country to have a very high economic rating IRL. Therefore, politicial and civil right ratings must play a part in determining the real economic situation.

What about Compulsory Consumerist States?
What about brainwashed nations?
They shouldn't be made to suffer because UR wants to voice his political opinions on the wrong thread.

The exception is where a country has neither political or civil rights. In this case the economy of that country will be automatically be Imploded, as massive unrests and internal strifes batter the country.

Look at the Third Reich!
The German economy survived the intial arming up pretty damn well, didn't they?

Also, I can name quite a few IRL liberal nations where the economy isn't quite up to scratch.
Bad idea, UR!

[Rasputin]

for once i agree with the squib. too many nations in RL have much larger armies due to their bad human rights , eg China , Germany in WW2 and others.

I dont think we will ever get agreemnt on this and this is obviously why this forum dies for so long ....

[Squeblish Nef?]

The Squib?
Is this anything to do with me calling you Raspie?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Squeblish Nef?
What about Compulsory Consumerist States?
What about brainwashed nations?

What about them?

Originally posted by Squeblish Nef?
They shouldn't be made to suffer because UR wants to voice his political opinions on the wrong thread.

Any real world examples you want to give?

Originally posted by Squeblish Nef?
Look at the Third Reich!
The German economy survived the intial arming up pretty damn well, didn't they?

How long did the Third Reich last?

I rest my case.

Originally posted by Squeblish Nef?
Also, I can name quite a few IRL liberal nations where the economy isn't quite up to scratch.
Bad idea, UR!

Sure. How does that contradict my model?

[GeneralTacticus]

How long did the Third Reich last?

I rest my case.

Economically, it lasted fine until it was being bombed into oblivion, which is hardly something you can represent in an economic calculator.

[Squeblish Nef?]

Eep!
I used GT's example!
Please don't hurt me, GT!