AU Multiplayer Mod

[ZargonX]

I know some people have used the AU mod in PBEMs and such before, but with all of the recent discussion that's been going on, I thought it might be worth looking into making an AU mod specifically for multiplayer situations. The elegance is that things that people would like to see changed that are rejected because the AI couldn't handle them would no longer be a consideration; humans can handle anything

Is this something people would be interested in seeing?

[SirOsis]

I think this would be great. Have one AU mod for SP and another for MP. Not that I need another PBEM but with the AU mod I might have to start one.

[alexman]

As C3C and the AU single player mod become more stable, a multiplayer AU mod would definitely be worth it, IMO.

We have tried to do something like this in the past.

[Rhothaerill]

I'd definitely like to see it if it happens.

[Rommel2D]

Is this intended only for games with no AIs? Would a MP game with AIs use the SP AU mod?

Once it comes to playtesting the mod, is anyone interested in playing online turn-based games?

[Rommel2D]

Testing the water again for PBEM interest (not sure if the next AU mod discussion will help or hinder- is it more stable?)...

Would ettiquette and rules concerning diplomatic interaction be considered part of an AU PBEM Mod? Most serious games limit trading of screen shots between players to occur only after the appropriate tech for exchanging maps has been discovered. Some games also limit alliance and MPP type agreements to be developed first through the game's mechanics.

To add importance to the presence of embassies and more flavor to the game, I'd suggest another such rule:
Prior to the establishment of an embassy between any two players, the only game-related communication between them (apart from offers placed upon the diplomacy table) must be in the form of edited names of units visible to the other player. This would of course also have to work in concert with the requirement not to nefariously disguise the identity of any units.

[alexman]

AU PBEM games in the past did have a basic ettiquette and rules, although it was not as extensive as what you are in the process of compiling for the C3C PBEM tournament.

I suspect that the AU PBEM games, if they ever get started, will take advantage of your work for the tournament, and adopt a similar set of rules.

As for the AU MP mod, perhaps the way to go is to decide on a set of changes from the regular AU mod. Then the MP mod readme will be relatively small, and the work involved will be less than if we had to decide on everything from scratch.

[Rommel2D]

I have yet to see any proposals for special changes to make a mod for MP. I have to admit I haven't spent much of my time studying the regular AU mod and course DARs, although I have followed mod change discussions of late and dabbled with AU503.

What I think we could use would be a mod that focused on balancing the various tribes and maybe governments somewhat. By stripping away all the changes in the AU mod that are there to curb AI exploitation (limiting ocean travel springs to mind, eg), we would have something closer to stock that PBEMers would be more willing to try without having to learn the more intircate changes from the regular mod.

Would this fall within the scope of an AU project?

[Theseus]

Yes.

[Dominae]

I think this would be a good project. PBEM has come into its own now, and will only gain popularity compared to SP as Civ3 gets older and CIV nears release. A PBEM AU mod would help keep AU during this time.

[Krill]

But how should we go about creating this mod? Should be just alter the present V. 1.05? And even then, what should the aims be? Personally I would like to follow the SP AU mod goals, primarily to increase the strategical choice, stick close to stock rules, and to improve the AI (there are some games that still use the AI, usually fast paced games of 2, sometimes 3 players.)

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Krill
... to follow the SP AU mod goals, primarily to increase the strategical choice, stick close to stock rules, and to improve the AI (there are some games that still use the AI, usually fast paced games of 2, sometimes 3 players.)

No, that would conflict with the reason for my proposal in the first place. If the game is being played with AIs, why not use the regular mod? I'm saying that alot of people play PBEM specifically to not have to be concerned about the shortcomings of the AI as an opponent. An AU MP mod could improve the game for them without introducing alot of the rules changes in the regular mod that help the AI but cause some people to balk at the learning curve.

There's still much to be improved over the stock game IMO, and I trust that the AU process would produce the best results. The foremost example to me is the (im)balance of individual tribes. There are some Civs that will never be voluntarily chosen, and a player that gets them randomly would be considered at a disadvantage. Some traits have niches for special map conditions of course, but overall I think we could do a better job of balancing...

[Rommel2D]

Ok, I've seen the idea for an AU PBEM mod crop up a few times, but it has yet to be gain the critical mass needed to continue the process of development. Please don't let my occasional bursts of egotism disrupt the process.

As I alluded in the 'next course' thread, I think the shortcomming of most current PBEM games is the massing of armies and sudden conflagrations that end the games sometime during the middle ages.

Consider that a primary focus of the SP AU mod is to improve the play of the AI. I think this focus should be shifted for a PBEM mod to improve information flow. The military advisor and F8 screen give clues to enemy strength, but these measurements are very inaccurate in ways. Wouldn't a mod focused on improving recon abilities facilitate a better quality human v human game?

One idea i had was moving espionage up an age or two. I also noticed that OzzyKP introduced a ballon recon unit into the diplogame mod. Just a couple suggestions of what I have in mind...

There has been talk of how AU has been dying of late. If it needs more life, consider that life is not a destination, but a journey. A six-player PBEM that lasts into the modern age might not produce a quick winner, but with quality players intent on playing well, it would make for one hell of an enveloping experience...

[punkbass2000]

I was thinking I might try to write an AU DAR for this game to try and get an idea of how the AU mod plays in MP. BTW, what effects would it currently have in MP? Offhand I can think of SoZ, boats, colisseum, cav, phil., Oracle(?), what else?

[punkbass2000]

The first step towards an AU MP mod, IMO, would be a distinct separation between enhancements that only affect AI and enhancements that affect an AI-less game. This would be generally useful and has come up in the game mentioned above.

[Rommel2D]

I guess the first question to ask is would we look at the current AU mod and take out the purely AI oriented changes, or start from scratch and look at each possible change as a modification of the normal game.

As an example of the difference, the point was made that the new armies could bring benefits to non-AI games, but I doubt regular armies would be seen as a 'problem' that needs fixing if not for the AI's lack of intelligence.

In other words, should this be a mod of the base rules, or a mod of the AU mod?

[ZargonX]

I have considered this to be something that would be a mod of the AU mod. Mostly, like you say, dealing with some of the issues that are AI-centric. Humans have inherently more flexibility in dealing with changes, so some ideas could be implemented that are left out of the regular mod, as well.

[nbarclay]

If changes affect ONLY the AI, there is no need to remove them. The only things that it would be clearly beneficial to remove from a multiiplayer version of the AU Mod would be changes that are designed to help the AI at the expense of strategic depth for human players, assuming any such exist.

Also, a multiplayer version of the Mod could potentially look for changes that would be considered unnecessary or inappropriate for SP play for some reason but that would be more useful in MP play. I'm not sure what might fit into that category, but it's an issue people with a strong interest in an MP version of the Mod might look at.

[snoopy369]

If any of you are still interested, head over to the PBEM Mod Info Thread... It's not going to be a mod of the AU mod as some of you mention, but a wholly-from-scratch mod intended to solely benefit the MP game. We'd appreciate any input you have, especially as experienced modders!