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Chimpanzees granted 'legal persons' status to defend their rights in court

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  • Chimpanzees granted 'legal persons' status to defend their rights in court

    Originally posted by The Guardian
    Chimpanzees granted 'legal persons' status to defend their rights in court

    For the first time in US history, a judge has granted two chimpanzees a petition – through human attorneys – to defend their rights against unlawful imprisonment, arguably bestowing the status of “legal persons” on the primates.

    On Monday, Manhattan supreme court justice Barbara Jaffe granted a writ of habeas corpus on behalf of two non-human plaintiffs, Hercules and Leo – chimpanzees used for medical experiments at Stony Brook University on Long Island.

    In her order, Jaffe ordered Samuel Stanley Jr, the president of Stony Brook, to argue before the court why the chimpanzees were being “unlawfully detained” at his university and should not be transferred to a primate sanctuary in Florida.

    The attorneys who brought the petition forward, part of the Nonhuman Rights Project (NhRP), argue that under New York law, “only a ‘legal person’ may have an order to show cause and writ of habeas corpus issued in his or her behalf. The court has therefore implicitly determined that Hercules and Leo are ‘persons’.”

    “This is one step in a long, long struggle,” said Steven Wise, the lawyer leading the effort. “She never says explicitly that our non-human plaintiffs were persons but by issuing the order … she’s either saying implicitly that they are or that they certainly can be. So that’s the first time that has happened.

    “It feels great. We knew it was going to happen sometime,” he added. “Even though we’re scattered all around the country we all gave each other a high five over the phone.”

    Habeas corpus petitions are used, in theory, to fight unlawful imprisonment by forcing a custodian to prove they have legal cause to detain someone.

    Wise’s argument in this case and others is that chimpanzees are intelligent, emotionally complex and self-aware enough to merit some basic human rights, such as the rights against illegal detainment and cruel treatment. They are “autonomous and self-determining”, in Wise’s words.

    He said he suspects that Eric Schneiderman, who will represent Stony Brook as attorney general of New York, will argue that “Hercules and Leo are things and that they’re not persons, and that’s where the battle lines are drawn. Are they persons or are they not persons?”

    Schneiderman may also draw from past rejections of Wise’s petitions. In one failed bid to remove another chimpanzee, Tommy, from captivity in a trailer in Gloversville, New York, an appeals court argued that chimpanzees do not participate in society and cannot be held accountable for their actions.

    “In our view,” the judges wrote, “it is this incapability to bear any legal responsibilities and societal duties that renders it inappropriate to confer upon chimpanzees the legal rights … that have been afforded to human beings.”

    In another decision, a separate appeals court argued that taking a different chimpanzee, Kiko, to a sanctuary amounted to another form of imprisonment, and that habeas corpus amounted to an inappropriate remedy.

    NhRP hopes to move the chimpanzees to the Save the Chimps sanctuary in Fort Pierce, Florida, where more than 250 chimps live on a series of islands along the Atlantic coast.

    Kathy Hessler, a professor of animal law at Lewis & Clark law school, told the Guardian that Wise’s burden is to prove chimps are “enough like a human that the legal system should take notice”.

    Opponents of Wise’s fight for limited rights for chimpanzees warn that the judge’s granting of the petition does not mean she endorses “personhood” for chimpanzees. Richard Cupp, a law professor at California’s Pepperdine University said “we should avoid reading too much into this document ordering a hearing.”

    “It seems quite unlikely that a judge would intend to make such an exceptionally controversial decision that a chimpanzee is a person without even hearing arguments from the other side,” Cupp said. The suggestion that nonhuman animals are persons is “new terrain for judges”, he added.

    Cupp and others argue that chimpanzees may deserve greater protections, but not rights. “No one should ever regard animals as if they were stones,” Richard Epstein, a New York University law professor told the Guardian last year, but he said that Wise and his cohorts go too far into a labyrinth of questions about what separates humans from nonhuman animals.

    NhRP has appealed against the decisions in Kiko and Tommy’s cases, and its next hearing on behalf of Hercules and Leo is scheduled for 6 May.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ment?CMP=fb_gu

    Good news, although I'm not sure how good they're going to be on the stand.

  • #2
    I doubt that decision survives appeal.
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    • #3
      I heard the dolphins aren´t happy about this and want to get granted the same status
      Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
      Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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      • #4
        if they told you themselves proteus then i agree!
        "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

        "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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        • #5
          Good news? Dafaq? This is insane. What's next? Rights for trees?
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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          • #6
            Holy **** this decision is stupid. If they're legal persons, can they be charged with raping other chimpanzees? Chimps are ****ing morons. They're only intelligent relative to other animals.
            If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
            ){ :|:& };:

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            • #7
              Chimps often outperform humans on some intelligence tests.

              Chimpanzees invite comparison with humans, their close relatives, and certain similarities between the two species go beyond expressive faces and opposable thumbs.


              You fucking dumbass.

              I went out with a girl who worked at a primate lab. Go ahead and disagree with me. I want to embarrass you.

              Also, intelligence in chimps varies from chimp to chimp much like it does in humans.



              Chimps are smarter than toddlers:

              In the first study of its kind, researchers pit human toddlers head-to-head against baby apes. The human kids won — but what's important is why
              To us, it is the BEAST.

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              • #8
                Chimpanzees act and behave like wild animals. Relatively intelligent wild animals, but seriously, just read a wikipedia article on their behavior. Males are notoriously capricious and violent, their tool use is restricted to the most simplistic application of sticks and rocks, and their emotional range as we understand it is not really more sophisticated than that of other megafauna such as elephants and dolphins. There is a much clearer divide between the intelligence of humans and other animals than at any other point on the spectrum, and so it is really the only logical place to draw a distinction for legal personhood.
                If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                ){ :|:& };:

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                  If they're legal persons, can they be charged with raping other chimpanzees?
                  I want Chimp Court!! Make it so
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.â€
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sava View Post
                    Dogs are probably smarter than newborns by any useful metric. They have better cognition of language, for instance. But newborns eventually become adult humans. Chimps aren't ever going to be as intelligent as even the most seriously retarded 18-year old.
                    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                    ){ :|:& };:

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                    • #11
                      edit: post wasn't directed at me
                      To us, it is the BEAST.

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                      • #12
                        Sava, I wrote that response before you posted, it wasn't in direct response to you. Sorry.
                        If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                        ){ :|:& };:

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                          Dogs [...] newborns
                          lolwut?

                          You are a serious moron.

                          Dogs aren't chimps. Babies aren't toddlers.
                          To us, it is the BEAST.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                            Sava, I wrote that response before you posted, it wasn't in direct response to you. Sorry.
                            no worries
                            To us, it is the BEAST.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sava View Post
                              lolwut?

                              You are a serious moron.

                              Dogs aren't chimps. Babies aren't toddlers.
                              Toddlers aren't fully developed humans, either. Human intelligence increases as humans develop. Adult chimpanzees may very well be more intelligent in many dimensions than human toddlers, but that doesn't mean it is reasonable to give them legal personhood. Animal cognition is a very interesting and relatively poorly-understood subject, but what is well-understood is that chimps, while obviously the most similar extant species to humans, ain't terribly bright.

                              My point is that we look at cognition in terms of the capabilities of adults, and we consider children legal persons despite their temporary stupidity because they will eventually be adults.
                              If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                              ){ :|:& };:

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