The reason I don't like radical feminists

[Kidlicious]

Pekka was a bit antagonistic too.

And CH was just wrong.

[Wezil]

Yeah but Pekka was dishing out as well as taking. Like I say he is only a character anyway. I'd love to meet the writer some day.

CH was trying to be civil.

Why does the issue get you so passionate if I may ask? I know you love to argue but why will you beat this dead horse so long?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wezil
Why does the issue get you so passionate if I may ask? I know you love to argue but why will you beat this dead horse so long?

I don't think it's fair to attack feminism like that. If you don't agree with it formulate an argument against it. To me trying to shame people for speaking out with their opinions and theories is wrong and hatefull.

[Wezil]

Well sure, but if all it took for me to launch into a multi-page argument was what I considered an ill- or uninformed opinion of something, I'd have no time for anything else. You obviously have to pick what you are prepared to devote the time, effort, and in this case abuse. Percieved anti-Feminism is a red flag in your face?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wezil
Percieved anti-Feminism is a red flag in your face?

I guess. That and I seem to be the only one defending it around here. In this case Imran helped. I don't know how much he believes in it, but at least he tried to make some people think. That's all I want to do really.

[Kidlicious]

Anyway, good night.

[Arrian]

Ah, now at least we have some quotes...

It is because we believe in your humanity, against all the evidence."

I'd say that qualifies as "man hating." It's certainly condescending in the extreme.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

I'm unclear on whether in this part

But listen to what she said to, and about, men when she addressed a men's conference and asked them to work for 24 hours without rape.

"rape" = all sex, or... you know, actual rape.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Wezil
I think Pekka is a riot. I read him as some sort of modern fiction. Great character.

Kid was a little too antagonistic with CH methinks.

Indeed. And CH responded appropriately.

-Arrian

[Shrapnel12]

Ok Kid you answered my question. You are denying it even exists which is pretty stupid or naive or both. And Pekka never said anything about this being the majority or a large portion of feminism. In fact he was quite clear that he wasn't saying that. He was quite specific which explains his frustration. He got right down to the letter and you are still twisting his words, quite typical when liberals don't have a leg to stand on. Lastly, he doesn't have to prove that what he's saying is sincere. If he says he's not attacking feminism as a whole, we should take him at his word on it. If you don't believe him, fine. Call him a liar and move onto the next thread.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
Ah, now at least we have some quotes...



I'd say that qualifies as "man hating." It's certainly condescending in the extreme.

-Arrian

Excuse me Arrian, but how do you compare the humanity of men to that of women and come to the conclussion that she is being condescending. I'm afraid that it's a very truthfull statement.

In fact, that quote is evidence that she was not a man-hater at all.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
Ok Kid you answered my question. You are denying it even exists which is pretty stupid or naive or both. And Pekka never said anything about this being the majority or a large portion of feminism. In fact he was quite clear that he wasn't saying that. He was quite specific which explains his frustration. He got right down to the letter and you are still twisting his words, quite typical when liberals don't have a leg to stand on. Lastly, he doesn't have to prove that what he's saying is sincere. If he says he's not attacking feminism as a whole, we should take him at his word on it. If you don't believe him, fine. Call him a liar and move onto the next thread.

I'm going to try not to antagonize you but Pekka was not clear at all. If you think he was then you need to check yourself.

When people aren't clear while they are bashing someone it's because they hate.

[Arrian]

I think you can compare the "humanity" (one might want to define that term, btw) of a man and a woman. Men and women, on the other hand... we're talking about billions of people. Even if we restrict it to the USA, we're talking about 150 million each. So, looking at the millions or billions of men out there, she concludes that "all the evidence" indicates that we're inhuman, but she states that women believe in our humanity anyway (because they're just THAT GOOD).

Like I said, that's an incredibly condescending statement, and clearly anti-male. We suck, but women believe we can change for the better... if only we'd just TRY.

Now let me circle back to what I said initially. If we discuss the behavior of individuals, it's entirely possible to find men who behave poorly (or inhuman, if you like). There are rapists, there are guys who beat their girlfriends, etc. And that stuff has got to stop.

But Ms. Dworkin's comment, whether she said it for shock value or not, was directed at "men" - without qualification. As such, it was directed at me. And I object, my friend, to being labeled inhuman.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
I think you can compare the "humanity" (one might want to define that term, btw) of a man and a woman. Men and women, on the other hand... we're talking about billions of people. Even if we restrict it to the USA, we're talking about 150 million each. So, looking at the millions or billions of men out there, she concludes that "all the evidence" indicates that we're inhuman, but she states that women believe in our humanity anyway (because they're just THAT GOOD).

wtf? no she doesn't. Read, "we believe in your humanity" please! "despite all the evidence" like domestic violence numbers?

Like I said, that's an incredibly condescending statement, and clearly anti-male. We suck, but women believe we can change for the better... if only we'd just TRY.

There's a big problem with the way men treat women, in case you aren't aware of it. It's reality. Check it out.

Now let me circle back to what I said initially. If we discuss the behavior of individuals, it's entirely possible to find men who behave poorly (or inhuman, if you like). There are rapists, there are guys who beat their girlfriends, etc. And that stuff has got to stop.

That's it, just rapists and such?! What about people who start threads like this? What about people who take a statement that's meaning is clearly "we don't hate men" and turn it into the opposite? Don't let yourself of the hook, because you haven't raped anyone bud.

But Ms. Dworkin's comment, whether she said it for shock value or not, was directed at "men" - without qualification. As such, it was directed at me. And I object, my friend, to being labeled inhuman.

-Arrian

"We believe in your humanity"

[Arrian]

From what I can tell, Ms. Dworkin had personal experiences that led her to the conclusions she's drawn. I can understand that. I'd prefer, however, if she laid off the generalizations. edit: seeing as she's dead, that's not going to happen. Oh well.

But hey, it's a free country. I don't feel threatened by her. She's on the fringe, and will almost certainly stay there.

-Arrian