making the tech choices

[d36williams]

In version 1.5 of Moo2, which is now fan supported, you can Terraform Toxic planets by using Bio Morphic Fungi and Weather Controllers.

[Father Beast]

Originally posted by vmxa1
It takes a awful long time before you could squeeze a converter onto a BB, I have never done it, but you could eventually.

actually, with 3 levels of hyper physics, I can squeeze a converter onto a cruiser! I had to downgrade to electronic computer, but who cares with the SC.

But you are mostly right. I can't imagine being able to do that with any sort of competition on me.

Hey wait, That's the way to terraform Toxics. Bombard them to rubble, then rebuild to barren.

[Brutalisk]

Most games of MOO2 finish overnight as long as you start them early enough and people stick to them...

Give it a go before you turn it down atleast

[Father Beast]

Originally posted by Brutalisk


May I ask why - just curious. MP is leaps and bounds more interesting than playing the AI.

it's just that it is usually a hassle to get set up for an internet game. I might try a LAN game if I ever get more than one computer in the house. I don't have any gaming friends living around here so I'm not going to go over to their house. the description of the "rules" in a multiplayer FAQ on some site somewhere illustrate just how much of a bother it is to hold one even after you get set up.

Besides, TBS games take too long to be played over the phone.

I have only ever played one game (count them, ONE) online, and that's Diablo. It was so danged easy. But I'll only play online for a half hour at a time.

My daughter and I have played Civ1 and HOMM hotseat, sometimes saving our game for a week or more at a time. that just seems incompatible with internet gaming, even were the hassle not present.

That's why.

[vmxa1]

"Originally posted by Brutalisk
Stargate -> best defense weapon when in conjuction with warp interdictor
Stellar COnverter -> nice fireworks"

"Father Beast
depends on map size, like the jumpgate question, but with megafluxers and one level of hyper for minitiarization, I can put an SC on a battleship. Plus, with one on a planet, they almost don't need defending. Cursed expensive, though. But I can forget about fighter garrisons, missile bases and ground batteries that way."

It takes a awful long time before you could squeeze a converter onto a BB, I have never done it, but you could eventually.

Being able to send your entire fleet to some point in one turn can save the day and just has to be taken. After I take down Orion and get ACP, I will usually beeline for Star Gates.

Once you have Gates and Warps your have to be careless to get a planet dusted. Be assured if you do not get some ships to defend a planet, all the planetary defenses can fail in the late game, even against the AI. They will just bring massive fleets.

This is why I want the gate. I will start looking for those large fleets and go after them to prevent any ugly attacks. Even more dangerous if the Darloks or anyone with Stealth is around.

I agree with your statement it is "it is just like the jump gates". This is correct, just like them, do not take the jump gates over the comm and do not take the SC over the Star Gates.

[MORON]

Re: making the tech choices

Originally posted by Father Beast
Const 9: Recyclotron vs. artificial planet. The Recyclotron is awesome, but I want those new worlds to fill.

Recyclotron unless playing something like uni-tol. In anycase, there is always more systems to be blasted open at the point of a gun, while artifical planets + colony base + all the stuff takes forever to pay it self back in comparision. Planet is only when you have nothing to build.....

Const 12: between Star Fortress and Advanced City Planning. I really want ACP, but I will always bypass battlestation for robo miners, and I would like to have something more than a generic Star Base. Waahhh.

ACP = must have.....

Power 6: Transporters or food replicators. Actually, this isn't so bad. I can live without either one, but it would be nice...

Transporters are useful....food replicators are useless outside of blockade protection, but with warp indictor + fleet defense, blockades don't happen that often nor that long.

Power 7: High energy Focus vs. Megafluxers. Megafluvers are so easy, but HEF would be soooo nice. Arghh.

Oh well....

Chem 2: Deuterium cells vs. Tritanium armor. I'll usually go for the armor, as outposts are cheap, and usually good enough. it's a pain when someone knocks over my outposts so they can get to me and I can't get them, though

Depends on the expansion strategy really. I usually get cells so I can scout a bit, as my early battles all end when nukes hit the ships and armor really don't mean that much when the missiles over kill many time over either way.....

Chem 3 and 4: polution vs. missiles. I need something better than that useless nuclear missile without waiting for the Zeon. but pollution can be a problem I'll usually take one missile and the other pollution building.

Nukes aint useless, though it really is no good against human designed ships.... I usually get both pollution buildings when playing the Ai, which in combination with uni, means that the ai would have to face 200+ missile broadsides.....

Chem 5: This is a problem. Nano disassemblers vs. Microlite construction. Both are easy achievements, but which. I guess microlite, unless pollution is a BIG Problem,

I usually go microlite, but I'll go zort if a big battle is on the horizon before I can get neutronium. nano disassemblers is almost never needed.

Comp 2,4,6: Choosing between research buildings and ship computers. I really want the research, but hate being stuck with a crappy electronic computer until the top of the line moleculartronic. Makes me want to bite someone

You need no computers until you can get high up on the physics/field tech tree anyway, which requires alots of research and moleculartronic can wait.

Comp 7: Virtual Reality network vs. Galactic Cybernet. Research or morale. Which shall it be?

Research.....usually....unless you are relying on autolabs as opposed to scientists for reseach, or intend to try to end the game quick.

Biology 1, 5: Hydroponic farms or Biospheres. Subterranean farms or Weather controller. bot seem like the same decision, but neither is that critical.

Biospheres and weather controller, always. Frighters are cheap.

Biology3: Telepathic Training vs. Microbiotics. I wonder every time. I usually pick Microbiotics, the regret it when someone steals Adamantium armor the turn after I discover it.

Telepathic training for me, because you can either get cloners or get grow by housing, but losing tech is annoying as well. Once on get a few cloners set up and the transport network to move them, natural growth is not that important. (but cloner/soil decision is annoying)

Biology 8: Biomorphic Fungi, Gaia Transformation, Evolution. They all look so good , I just can't decide.

Gaia is more useful in the long run, evolution is more useful in the short run if you need a extra 4 picks(for warlord so you can build up your doomstar fleet, for example), biomorphic is useless.

Physics 5: Tractor beam, Graviton Beam, Planetary Gravity Generator. They all have uses, but PGG can be lived without if you're not lowG, if you are lowG, you really need it. if you're high G, you can just ignore the PGG. but you still have a decision.

lowG = PGG
Tractor beam is usually more useful, as good comps usually don't come by or that research is done petty fast already (most of the reseach lab techs) and phasors should be close.

Physics 6: Subspace Comm, Jump Gate. The xtra command points for communications is very nice, but so is the travel. I'll usually wait for Hyper comm and miss out on the mauler.

Subspace comm, unless I'm warlord, then I'll take jump gate. Mauler sucks, by the way, and makes my ground station useless on more than one occasion when I captured it from stupid ai.

Physics 11: Stellar Converter or Star Gate. The ultimate weapon. Very cool. I took out the guardian in one shot. But I've been playing in small galaxies, and I can see how the mobility would be vital in larger ones.

I've gotten timewarp last game (since I was attacking out of a corner of the galaxy and needed a bit more punch, while I have death rays for planetory bombardment), but I'd say stargate for the usual huge galaxy, and stellar converter if on med or small.

Force Fields 1: Shield, Mass driver, ECM. The early shield is small, but that early on it makes a difference. But so does the mass driver, as nice as it gets for an early weapon. Dang.

Mass driver, since shield I really doesn't mean much....

Force Fields 3: Shield III vs. Planetary shield. Not for the defense, for starting to terraform those radiated worlds.

Planetary shield..... Really, if one have adv-damage control, shields are usually not that necessary. If one have heavy armor somehow, one might as well ditch shields all together imo, unless one is facing at +20 heavy G transporters boarding fleet.....

Force Fields Warp Field Interdictor, Lighning Field. Protect the system or protect my ships. What to do....

Warp interdictor. Lightening field is not needed later in the game when stacks of pd beams can shoot down most opposing projectiles, while the warp interdictor is life or death. (absolutely, no questions asked)

But I can forget about fighter garrisons, missile bases and ground batteries that way.

They suck anyway, as ships are far superior, especially when one have many planets as ships can be concentrated. At max tech, one battleship can take out all three on its own.....with them hiding behind a barrier shield no less.

[vmxa1]

"Yeah, vxma1 said the same thing. I don't get it. Microlite lasts forever, Zort lasts until you get neutronium or adamantium."

The reasoning I have used is that the Zort lets you survive battles. Both on offense and defense. This is true in MP or SP, but even more critical in MP where someone is going to be coming by then.

Plus 15 troop combat, 4 times armor for ships and structures. This can make the difference between life and death. Plus 1 for production cannot.

Lasting forever is a good thing, but you can get by without it. You have what you need now to do damage and go to Orion for some real armor hopefully.

Usually this armor will be enough with you Reinforced Hulls to stop most of the beam weapons they will be using. Getting that build done a bit sooner is not critical and that is what Microlite gives you.

[vmxa1]

Ok the moment my head hit the pillow I saw the light. I had forgotten to consider that when you have the BB built with the hypothetical 10 guns, it is more or less using all space.

Now you get the HEF and you have to make room for it by removing some guns. So initially you will have some 5 less guns (I was too lazy to look up the size for HEF, but guessed it at 50). So now it is about 37-150 damage vs the megafluxer with 16 guns or 90-320.

Thanks for making me reevaluate this concept. While it is true that in SP you are going to be top dog with either, it is good to have the facts.

[Brutalisk]

"I have no intention of playing multiplayer, unless it's hotseat, "

May I ask why - just curious. MP is leaps and bounds more interesting than playing the AI.

"Probably right, but on small maps, jump gate will do just fine in conjunction with Warp Interdictor."

You don't need it. Good engines and planning ensures jump gates are practically "obsolete".

"But I can forget about fighter garrisons, missile bases and ground batteries that way"

You can forget about those anyhow as their alternatives are way better. AF , Spaceport and Titan.

Note: there are myriads of different strategies you can follow, there's rarely an absolute way to do things, no matter what anyone tells you. Just follow the way of play that suits you best.

[Father Beast]

Originally posted by Brutalisk


Creative in multiplayer is almost too expensive. There are some occasions when you can actually win it, if you get enough time or.. lucky. However, it would probably be because no player went for a uni-tol race.

I have no intention of playing multiplayer, unless it's hotseat, so I appreciate the SP tips.

Originally posted by Brutalisk
Neither, get zortium.

Yeah, vxma1 said the same thing. I don't get it. Microlite lasts forever, Zort lasts until you get neutronium or adamantium.

Originally posted by Brutalisk
ALWAYS biospheres! ALWAYS weather controller! Even from the prospect of farming those two are better unless every planet you own is incapable of farming!



Tele Training. Spy bonuses are good to have, esp if you are a democracy, dictatorship or a spy freak. Consider the other if you are a uni race.

Ok, after playing through a few more times I have to agree. might even take the tele as uni.

Originally posted by Brutalisk
Subspace Com. Unless you are a warlord, you'll need it there and then. If you don't need it, your fleet is too small and you are about to become extinct.

Probably right, but on small maps, jump gate will do just fine in conjunction with Warp Interdictor.

Originally posted by Brutalisk
Stargate -> best defense weapon when in conjuction with warp interdictor
Stellar COnverter -> nice fireworks

depends on map size, like the jumpgate question, but with megafluxers and one level of hyper for minitiarization, I can put an SC on a battleship. Plus, with one on a planet, they almost don't need defending. Cursed expensive, though. But I can forget about fighter garrisons, missile bases and ground batteries that way.

Originally posted by Brutalisk
Warp interdictor. Those 3 turns give you a lot of valuable time to raise a fleet or recall one to the point in need. Or in the worst of cases, buys you time while you regroup elsewhere.

You are correct. after trying it, I have to agree.

Originally posted by Brutalisk
You don't need it.

Yah, but I wish

I do appreciate the perspective.

[Brutalisk]

More space gives you flexibility:

- missile ships
- ships that can be more maneuvrable and thus harder to hit and/or have better initiative

I'm not saying the HEF is not good, just saying I tend to go for megafluxers and I consider it a better option. In most mp games anyhow the game finishes before you reach that stage. In SP games, it's hard to lose, so it hardly matters.

[vmxa1]

What would be the distinction, can you explain it to me? I mean if you make a ship and have HEF, then go into combat with ship x and get results n. Then you take the tech away for HEF and give Megaflux and build the ship with that, what exactly would be the main difference?

Near as I can tell they are pretty darn close. So lets say you are correct, how come? Are you sure it is not just a case of having other advantages at that point?

Some time in the next week I will try to get around to some testing. I mean I can see at different points of time you will get one with a slight advantage in damage to the other and the more miniturization, the better for the Megafluxers, but it will take a longer game for that to come into play, unless you stay with older tech for guns.

What am i missing?

[Brutalisk]

VMXA: there is one way to find out. We can set up an online battle and see - given otherwise identical technologies - whether HEF or Megaflux ships can win You'd be surprised my friend.

[vmxa1]

Megaflux vs HEF is not so clear cut. A battleship hull with 250 space gets an additional 62 space.

So if you have phasors and I will keep it simple by leaving them as space 10.

Say you have 10 (easier to deal with), you get 50-200 damage with no other considerations.

With Megaflux you get 6 more phasors = 80-260 damage.
With HEF the 10 get 75-300 damage.

I am ignoring the to hit factors and such, but that is pretty close. Now the difference is you only have to add the production of one special, so it should be cheaper and faster to refit ships.

When you jump to another design and use another weapon that will be larger such as disrupters you get 5 without the megaflux and 6 with. That is 300 damge with HEF vs 240 with Megafluxers.

[Brutalisk]

"Stuff like this makes me want to play as creative, so I can have all the toys..."

Creative in multiplayer is almost too expensive. There are some occasions when you can actually win it, if you get enough time or.. lucky. However, it would probably be because no player went for a uni-tol race.

Anyhow, for single-player games:

"Here are some of the choices I sometimes agonize over, organized by category.

Const 9: Recyclotron vs. artificial planet. The Recyclotron is awesome, but I want those new worlds to fill."

You don't need recyclotron... You don't artificial planet eitehr but atleast that one can give u quite a few extra planets that you can then terraform all the way to gaia

"
Const 12: between Star Fortress and Advanced City Planning. I really want ACP, but I will always bypass battlestation for robo miners, and I would like to have something more than a generic Star Base. Waahhh. "

I pick starfortress if I want to mess around. The betetr choice is ACP, because of the extra population you get. Population is (almost) everything.

"
Power 6: Transporters or food replicators. Actually, this isn't so bad. I can live without either one, but it would be nice..."

Food replicators are useless. They only serve as a way for you not to ever bother again about food and come at a great production detriment. If you get some of the farming techs though you won't even have to blink anyhow. Go for transporters and learn how to use them in battle. They come in pretty handy...

"
Power 7: High energy Focus vs. Megafluxers. Megafluvers are so easy, but HEF would be soooo nice. Arghh."

Megafluxers hands down

"
Chem 2: Deuterium cells vs. Tritanium armor. I'll usually go for the armor, as outposts are cheap, and usually good enough. it's a pain when someone knocks over my outposts so they can get to me and I can't get them, though."

This depends on:

- map size
- situation
- your overall plan

You can skip tritanium and get zortium. You can skip deuterium and get irridium. The choice is yours and this one varies depending on what the situation is. Too long to lsit all the permutations.

"
Chem 3 and 4: polution vs. missiles. I need something better than that useless nuclear missile without waiting for the Zeon. but pollution can be a problem I'll usually take one missile and the other pollution building."

Most players go for merculites and then the pollution building.

2 great benefits:

- mercs come sooner and thus turn "scatterpack" aka mirv - they ahve enough punch to ensure that they dominate any medium multiplayer game and the entirety of a single-player game.
- the second poluttion building cuts 3/4 of pollution, whereas the first cuts only 1/2

"
Chem 5: This is a problem. Nano disassemblers vs. Microlite construction. Both are easy achievements, but which. I guess microlite, unless pollution is a BIG Problem,"

Neither, get zortium.

"
Comp 2,4,6: Choosing between research buildings and ship computers. I really want the research, but hate being stuck with a crappy electronic computer until the top of the line moleculartronic. Makes me want to bite someone "

Always research, UNLESS you want to blitz and even then it's not always advicable.

"
Comp 7: Virtual Reality network vs. Galactic Cybernet. Research or morale. Which shall it be?"

By that time, does it really matter? VR network is probably better because of the boosted production and if you really haven't won by then the boosted production will come in handy.

"
Biology 1, 5: Hydroponic farms or Biospheres. Subterranean farms or Weather controller. bot seem like the same decision, but neither is that critical."

ALWAYS biospheres! ALWAYS weather controller! Even from the prospect of farming those two are better unless every planet you own is incapable of farming!

"
Biology3: Telepathic Training vs. Microbiotics. I wonder every time. I usually pick Microbiotics, the regret it when someone steals Adamantium armor the turn after I discover it."

Tele Training. Spy bonuses are good to have, esp if you are a democracy, dictatorship or a spy freak. Consider the other if you are a uni race.

"
Biology 8: Biomorphic Fungi, Gaia Transformation, Evolution. They all look so good , I just can't decide."

Gaia transformation as long as you are not Aqua. Always think population. Besides, biomorphic fungi is actually USELESS. I wouldn't have it even if you gave it to me for free!

"
Physics 5: Tractor beam, Graviton Beam, Planetary Gravity Generator. They all have uses, but PGG can be lived without if you're not lowG, if you are lowG, you really need it. if you're high G, you can just ignore the PGG. but you still have a decision."

If you are lowg you need to learn how to play. LowG is the worst pick after uncreative.

Tractor -> handy for ship battles, if you know how
Graviton -> hmm u don't really need it
Gravity gen -> good for "doubling" production in heavyG ultra rich planets (as is the case with most ultra rich and rich planets). Go for gravity gen.

"
Physics 6: Subspace Comm, Jump Gate. The xtra command points for communications is very nice, but so is the travel. I'll usually wait for Hyper comm and miss out on the mauler."

Subspace Com. Unless you are a warlord, you'll need it there and then. If you don't need it, your fleet is too small and you are about to become extinct.

"
Physics 11: Stellar Converter or Star Gate. The ultimate weapon. Very cool. I took out the guardian in one shot. But I've been playing in small galaxies, and I can see how the mobility would be vital in larger ones."

Stargate -> best defense weapon when in conjuction with warp interdictor
Stellar COnverter -> nice fireworks

"
Force Fields 1: Shield, Mass driver, ECM. The early shield is small, but that early on it makes a difference. But so does the mass driver, as nice as it gets for an early weapon. Dang."

Mass driver after two mroe field techs are researched. BUT, there are cases where shield 1 is required.

"
Force Fields 3: Shield III vs. Planetary shield. Not for the defense, for starting to terraform those radiated worlds."

Usually neither. Warp Dissipator for ship battles - in multiplayer - so that your opponent can't flee the battle. Combine it with an array of missiles and kiss those ships goodbye. If you have doubts come to kali. On a personal basis I sometimes try shield III but only because i like to try alternate strategies.

"
Force Fields Warp Field Interdictor, Lighning Field. Protect the system or protect my ships. What to do...."

Warp interdictor. Those 3 turns give you a lot of valuable time to raise a fleet or recall one to the point in need. Or in the worst of cases, buys you time while you regroup elsewhere.

"
Most desired technology: something to let me terraform Toxic worlds."

You don't need it.

"
Comments, anyone?"

I put the time in replying to all of it, I hope you put the time in reading it and try to draw something uselful out of it.

If you got questions don't hesitate to ask.