PROJECT: Playtest Thread III

[Ekmek]

maq I put a new build in my signature if you want to give it a shot!


I was thinking of adding age combat modifiers, like BonusAgainstAncient etc but figured it may hinder adding ages, I could do a struct but not much practice with that yet.

[Alexoin]

Random Crashes

Been a while since I played CTP2 (new computer in between) and I am getting regular random crashes (longest I've had a game go is 17 turns:/). Used to be able to play fine on the old computer (Athlon 2200, XP Pro 32 bit, Radeon 9600). I have crashes both with 1.11 regular and the latest version of the playtest (got slightly further in with the playtest). The crash logs with the playtest are as follows:-

This crash occurs when i move my unit onto a goody hut (hoplite unit)
0x00466a79 [?ResetCanResearch@Advances@@QAEXJ@Z + 0x79]
0x004c533e [?SetHasAdvance@Player@@QAEXJ@Z + 0x39e]
0x004663e5 [?SetHasAdvance@Advances@@QAEXJ@Z + 0x165]
0x00466636 [?GiveAdvance@Advances@@QAEXJW4CAUSE_SCI@@H@Z + 0x156]
0x004ac41a [?OpenGoody@GoodyHut@@QAEXABJABVMapPoint@@@Z + 0x23a]
0x00479ba7 [?CheckTerrainEvents@ArmyData@@QAEXXZ + 0x47]
0x00482c20 [?GEVHookCallback@MoveUnitsEvent@@EAE?AW4GAME_EVENT _HOOK_DISPOSITION@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgLi st@@@Z + 0x5b0]
0x00575b24 [?Activate@GameEventHook@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@PA VGameEventArgList@@AAJ@Z + 0x34]
0x00576502 [?ActivateHook@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@AAJ@Z + 0x22]
0x0057489e [?Process@GameEvent@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@AAH@Z + 0x3e]
0x00576268 [?Process@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@ XZ + 0x88]
0x005761b1 [?ArglistAddEvent@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVE NT_ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT_INSERT@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGame EventArgList@@@Z + 0x1e1]
0x00575fac [?AddEvent@GameEventManager@@QAA?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@ @W4GAME_EVENT_INSERT@@W4GAME_EVENT@@ZZ + 0xcc]
0x00670cf8 [?ui_HandleKeypress@@YAJIJ@Z + 0x368]
0x00407234 [?WndProc@@YGJPAUHWND__@@IIJ@Z + 0x74]
0x77d48734 [__onexitbegin + 0x7727d25c]
0x77d48816 [__onexitbegin + 0x7727d33e]
0x77d4c63f [__onexitbegin + 0x77281167]
0x77d4e905 [__onexitbegin + 0x7728342d]
0x73781967 [__onexitbegin + 0x72cb648f]
0x77d48734 [__onexitbegin + 0x7727d25c]
0x77d48816 [__onexitbegin + 0x7727d33e]
0x77d489cd [__onexitbegin + 0x7727d4f5]
0x77d496c7 [__onexitbegin + 0x7727e1ef]
0x0040712f [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x3df]
0x00406ba5 [WinMain@16 + 0x65]
0x007dad2c [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134]
0x7c816d4f [__onexitbegin + 0x7bd4b877]

This crash occurs if i dont move the hoplite and just end the turn:-
0x00466a79 [?ResetCanResearch@Advances@@QAEXJ@Z + 0x79]
0x004c533e [?SetHasAdvance@Player@@QAEXJ@Z + 0x39e]
0x004663e5 [?SetHasAdvance@Advances@@QAEXJ@Z + 0x165]
0x00466636 [?GiveAdvance@Advances@@QAEXJW4CAUSE_SCI@@H@Z + 0x156]
0x004c884d [?GEVHookCallback@GrantAdvanceEvent@@EAE?AW4GAME_EV ENT_HOOK_DISPOSITION@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventAr gList@@@Z + 0x5d]
0x00575b24 [?Activate@GameEventHook@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@PA VGameEventArgList@@AAJ@Z + 0x34]
0x00576502 [?ActivateHook@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@AAJ@Z + 0x22]
0x0057489e [?Process@GameEvent@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@AAH@Z + 0x3e]
0x00576268 [?Process@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@ XZ + 0x88]
0x005761b1 [?ArglistAddEvent@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVE NT_ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT_INSERT@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGame EventArgList@@@Z + 0x1e1]
0x00575fac [?AddEvent@GameEventManager@@QAA?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@ @W4GAME_EVENT_INSERT@@W4GAME_EVENT@@ZZ + 0xcc]
0x00433075 [?dh_endTurn@@YAXPAVDQAction@@PAVSequence@@W4DHEXEC UTE@@@Z + 0x35]
0x0042b639 [?HandleNextAction@Director@@QAEXXZ + 0xc9]
0x0040c37a [?Process@CivApp@@QAEJXZ + 0x12a]
0x004070f1 [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x3a1]
0x00406ba5 [WinMain@16 + 0x65]
0x007dad2c [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134]
0x7c816d4f [__onexitbegin + 0x7bd4b877]

I have debugslic off

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by E
maq I put a new build in my signature if you want to give it a shot!

Sorry did you have that in your sig before?

Only the 2610_ECtp2exe.zip in your sig is named the same as the other zip i had already downloaded some time ago, so i didnt think that was it.

Actually i just downloaded it and checked the timestamp so it is new. Ill give the new flags a try in a bit.

[Ekmek]

yeah, i keep the same file name to make updating easier.

the flags are IsFoot, IsMechanized, to identify the unit, then then you got the defense and attack bonuses. I'll post the cdb fileso you can see the new list soon.

[Fugi the Great]

I realize that you guys are busy in "E's Source Code attempts" making new code for whatever (sorry haven't read through half of it), but when are we going to get a new "official" Playtest to try out? All the stuff you guys have added so far seems okay, but it would really be nice if the stuff that is already added had all the bugs taken out before you introduce even more bugs (Microsoft would call them features). If the problems that I encountered on the last playtest were only machine specific or Direct X related or just plain bugs in the coding, it would be nice if we could figure out what it is just in case someone else has the same problem. Then too, some of the people who do not encounter these bugs, do they play until the bitter end or do they just play for a few turns, notice it works fine so far and that's it? It would really be nice to play a new version where I can play all the way through without getting tons of errors after only playing a couple hundred turns and not being able to finish the game.

My two cents worth.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Fugi the Great

It would really be nice to play a new version where I can play all the way through without getting tons of errors after only playing a couple hundred turns and not being able to finish the game.

You shouldnt always get "tons of errors", but you shouldnt be surprised to find a bug either, thats the point of the playtest.

[Ekmek]

Fugi,

Since the Oct-23 playtest and adding my playtest build, its pretty stable. What bugs are you running into?

[Tamerlin]

I am sorry but I have to support Fugi's call, I have always looked for a CTP2 playtest whose gameplay would be as close as possible to the original game, to the exception of some really needed improvements like a "unit updater". Though E's work appears to be really impressive, I am not that interested in a game using Civ3 "features" which is, IMO, the worst 4X game I have played until then.

[Maquiladora]

Fugi didnt complain about any of those new features though he complained about bugs, which is exactly the point of the playtest, to find them.

Besides that, even before any new features were added, the original code had plenty of bugs of its own.

Also if through testing these features dont fit in original CtP2 they can always be removed anyway, but the point is its still an option in the code for someone else to use. Like E making a civ3 mod.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Fugi didnt complain about any of those new features though he complained about bugs, which is exactly the point of the playtest, to find them.

I know that, I am not complaining about new features, I am not interested in them for the moment. As far as I have understood, Fugi would appreciate a new playtest build rather than new features over a game whose bugs have not yet been corrected. His call meets my interest.

Also if through testing these features dont fit in original CtP2 they can always be removed anyway, but the point is its still an option in the code for someone else to use. Like E making a civ3 mod.

Must those features be removed from the code (and I am not a "coder") or can they be selected and unselected at the beginning of the game through the interface?

[Maquiladora]

As far as I have understood, Fugi would appreciate a new playtest build rather than new features over a game whose bugs have not yet been corrected. His call meets my interest.

I cant see the logic in complaining when you find a bug in the playtest, thats all.

If a bug is reported im sure someone will have a look at it when they have the chance.

Must those features be removed from the code (and I am not a "coder") or can they be selected and unselected at the beginning of the game through the interface?

If you want to edit a few text files they can be removed from the playtest.

[ctplinuxfan]

Well, Fugi maybe has seen other projects which do a feature-freeze prior to releasing a new version to find bugs. The main idea is to reduce the amount of code modified in that phase, thus decrease the potential introduction of further bugs. This helps increasing stability.

However, the playtests introduce more features, because developement is ongoing and hence there is no version of the ctp2 apolyton edition available for release.

I appreciate E's and all your work (i started merging back to linux branch, conflict for conflict...), and i don't think Fugi doesn't. I suppose he just want's something "What works.", i.e. a final release...

[Fugi the Great]

Oops. Didn't expect to start a war here

Originally posted by E
Fugi,
Since the Oct-23 playtest and adding my playtest build, its pretty stable. What bugs are you running into?

So is this (E's Source Code attempts) the thread that will be the official "playtest" release? I haven't read much of that thread, but but from what I read, it sounded a lot more "beta-ish" to me, especially when you put the word "attempts" in the thread title. I have not tried any of your versions just because of that. So is the official playtest updated - just not posted, or are you saying that your version is pretty stable?

As for what bugs I was running into, back on Nov 12, I posted things like invisible units, CTD's, not exiting properly, and unable to continue after only 300+ turns (just when it starts getting really interesting),
just to name a few. Have those items been fixed, and what files do I download to fix these problems? And are these no part of the "official" playtest now?

Dumb question, but why do we need to download 3 Rar files (not that I really care since I have cable), when only a few of the files are modified or added from the original Playtest. Why not just have people get the files from Playtest 1 (which we already have), and download only the files that have changed since that time? I am only thinking of the guys with dial-up.

And yes I do appreciate what everyone here has done for this playtest, it just seems that we are jumping the gun by adding new things to the playtest (and thereby new bugs) without fixing the bugs that already exist. It just seems that we went from a very stable Playtest 1, then jump to #2 and introduce bugs, then to #3 and introduce more bugs and not fix the bugs from #2, and on and on and... True some of the additions are very welcome and very much needed, but yes it would be nice if I played

Originally posted by ctplinuxfan
something "What works.", i.e. a final release...

or at least working properly with what has been added up to that point, maybe with a few minor glitches that can be ironed out on the next version. It just gets a little frustrating when a new playtest comes out with new features and it still has the same problem that was introduced three or four version ago (won't exit properly). And also a little frustrating that I haven't been able to finish a game with any playtest since Playtest 1. You know when you are having no problems so far, start thinking that this could be the one, you start to really get into the game and then suddenly - bam, CTD - can't continue. Maybe I just play longer than other people so I am stressing certain parts of the game out more than others who say it works fine after only 100 turns or so - don't know. Maybe its my machine configuration, or the number of empires I play with, or the size of map, or maybe a lot of other things, but if we can figure out the problem now it would be a lot easier than when you add another 50 new things to the build that will just make it harder to find and fix the problem.

okay - enough ranting, have a Happy New Year

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Fugi the Great
Dumb question, but why do we need to download 3 Rar files (not that I really care since I have cable), when only a few of the files are modified or added from the original Playtest. Why not just have people get the files from Playtest 1 (which we already have), and download only the files that have changed since that time? I am only thinking of the guys with dial-up.

I thought about only posting the changed files, but when I've done such things in the past, it has often turned out that I missed out one crucial file and this causes unnecessary annoyance to all. Furthermore, a significant portion of the download is the executable and map, which always changes, so even if we were to include only changed files, it would probably only make the download about twice as fast.

With regards to E's changes: They do end up in the official playtest version as well, which may cause problems. Perhaps it would have been / be better if they were done in a branch, rather than in the main development code, and then we should be able to get the best of both worlds. I don't want to deter E from making his efforts by making things more complicated, though...

With regards to these crashes: Perhaps they have been fixed, and perhaps not... These types of crashes are difficult for the developers to reproduce, and thus difficult to diagnose. Fromafar submitted a few more attempted crash fixes a while ago, and there have been other changes which might help incidentally. In some cases there may have been an attempted fix to a crash that was reported, and this attempt did not work, so it doesn't hurt to report the crash again, so that the developers know that this attempted fix did not work. But we really do need as much information as possible regarding the crash to have any hope of fixing it. Not much has happened since Nov 12th, though, so those problems are probably still there. It would be nice to have a Bugzilla server so that bugs could be kept track of properly, but I think that there's no chance of that.

As to where you can download these changes, E's version of the executable is taken from the same codebase as the playtest versions I post, so the code changes are there, although I think he also has some changes to the text files which are not in the 'official' releases to demonstrate the new features.

I can post a new official playtest on request, but my perusal of the changes since the last one suggests that they would have little impact on the end user, except perhaps that magic incidental bugfix.

[Fugi the Great]

I guess now I know.

I wouldn't want to deter E's, or anyone else's effort for that matter, in development, from what little I have read, is sounds/looks like a lot of good ideas. It is just that so much new stuff is added at the same time "fixes" are done that you don't really know if the fix actually works because some other problem popped up with new code, or the fix works but something in the new code is causing the same problem. You say others have submitted code to maybe fix the problems I had, and then maybe not. Someone may very well have fixed the problem, but others may have added more new code that may might not let me get past turn 200 next time so I won't know if the fix actually works for the problem I was seeing at turn 365.

I realize that the developers don't exactly have a lot of time on their hands to do this, but it would be nice if we stayed with a playtest version for a while, test it, fix it, test it again, fix it again... until it is no longer broke. And then for every fix, generate a new version (Playtest IIIc for example) that everyone would try out for a while to see if it is stable. Then when you know for 99.44% that that version is stable, then you can come out with a new version (maybe: Playtest IVa) with all the new bells and whistles. Of course that would mean a lot more compiling of the code more often - something I have never done, so I don't know how long that would take. Of course that is in a perfect world, and not everyone (including me) is going to play CTP2 continuously, especially when a new fix may come out in a day or so (okay probably not that soon, but a little sooner than the two to three months we usually have to wait would really be nice). It might even take several days to play a game depending on what is going on. Sometimes you just have to get a few RTS or FPS games in there for a change of pace, and some people actually have a life, school, work, and family to worry about as well.