AHL- Apolyton Hockey League 09/10: Preseason

[notyoueither]

For extra bench spot (increase to 5):
nye
Flubber?

Against extra bench spot (leave at 4)
snoopy369

[Asher]

I'm indifferent to the extra spot.

[mrboo123]

I vote for increase in the bench

[Flubber]

I vote for increase in the bench

Excellent

Are we planning to start the draft next Tuesday? Or is some other date favored?

[Kontiki]

I'll vote no to the extra bench spot, but I'm not too fussed about it either way.

[snoopy369]

I would strongly suggest that the number of folks in the league should affect the bench spot, if y'all are indifferent. A 10 team league has a decent waiver wire either way, so I don't care if you add a 5th. A 14 team league, on the other hand, will even with a 4 person bench have pretty lousy talent on the waivers, except for D-men; look at the 14 team FFL league, which has a large bench and 14 teams. Utterly useless players on the waiver wire - nearly every starting quarterback in the NFL is on a team (every single one assured of a starting spot, and a few not assured), and the RB depth is pathetic.

I'm not sure how the numbers work out in hockey - in the NFL it's a bit more obvious, 32 QBs, around 50 RBs, 64 or so WRs, etc., so with 2/5/5 you have 28/70/70 [ie, all of the competent players plus some not-competent ones]. Take a look at where the tier from 'acceptable to start' to 'not acceptable to start' breaks; and by acceptable, I mean 'if Crosby goes down' acceptable, not 'drafted to start'. Try to set the rosters up so that the tier break is slightly larger than the total roster size for the league; if you assume a few guys not acceptable to start will be picked up as fliers [rookies, etc.], then having at least a few wingers on the waivers that could be started if needed is best, if there's no swing spot [having a utility/swing spot makes this a bit easier as you can add a C to spell your wingers].

[notyoueither]

Excellent

Are we planning to start the draft next Tuesday? Or is some other date favored?

Cavalcadeus is back on the Wednesday.

[Flubber]

I would strongly suggest that the number of folks in the league should affect the bench spot, if y'all are indifferent. A 10 team league has a decent waiver wire either way, so I don't care if you add a 5th. .
.

I take your point but the roster size for the NHL is 30 teams x 20 players dressed each game-- so you have 600 potentially "draftable". If we get to 14 teams at 15 players thats still only 210 players. In practice that will be 28-40 goalies so the maximum number of skaters drafted is about 180 for that size league

Unlike football, ALL the non-goalies are at least a theoretical threat to "score" in ANY of the 5 player categories. Every team WILL have 5 people on their first PP unit (150 players)after all etc. I checked and the 180th best scorer in the NHL scored 40 points. Go up sixty spots and you are only at 48 points. Go down 60 and you are at 32 points.

I just don't see the same break into unusable players. Every week last year there was some player that was undrafted and had a good week. I would guess that we would need to be drafting around 300 players, maybe more, before the waiver wire failed to regularly have someone of some value. Even at that level there would be gems available if people are paying attention.

I take note though that your points are equally an argument for limiting the number of teams as it is to limiting the bench size. After all each additional manager has the same impact as an additional bench spot (give or take). Are you proposing we close the league at some set number? (this is likely not an issue in practice but I am curious)



Whether 100 players get drafted or 200 there will be lots of players of pretty comparable quality to those drafted in the last few rounds and there will be always those unexpected folks that come from nowhere and play really well. Oh and nothing REALLY compensates for the loss of a # 1 pick to injury--


Oh goalies? Everyone has to have two under our roster rules and its a tight position since pretty much EVERY starter and good platoon tends to get drafted. I don't see an additinal bench spot changing things THAT much. The people that want 3 good goalies will draft that way and the free agent goalies will loook very sparse to start the season (until injuries make a hero of some minor leaguer)



I propose an additional bench spot to

1. allow a bench player for EACH of C, LW, RW, D and G if a manager chooses
2. allow for just a little more strategy in drafting as a person can choose to emphasize a position
3. reward those that draft well

[Flubber]

Cavalcadeus is back on the Wednesday.

Ok so Wednesday then?

Any chance we can close the league and do the randomization thingy a few days before then to set draft order? I'll probably end up with 9th pick or something anyway so see no need to sprain my brain on the relative merits of Crosby, Ovechkin and the like.


Oh and did we set any BAPAY rules?

How about something simple like

1. 12 hours for the first 3 rounds
2. 6 hours thereafter
3. If a person has been BAPAYed the previous round and has not been in contact since, they are BAPAYed immediatedly upon their turn arising until they are sighted again
4. BAPAY to be done as a intelligent BAPAY-- use the list strictly except for the obvious PIM anomolies. best player is picked to fill any available starters roles first. If all starters are picked its just BAPAY all the way.

5. Any manager can BAPAY by posting the pick and starting the clock for the next player. The BAPAYed manager can always change the pick within * hours (thoughts on this?)


--- plus use some common sense/discretion and not Bapay immediatedly a person if the draft suddenly jumped through 6 managers unexpectedly and their turn arose at 1 a.m. their local or if they are away for a reasonable period and have specified when they will be back-- On the contrary side if the pick is with the person that drafts before me for several hours, I should give my pick and an alternate to someone else if I know I will be offline- I should be BAPAYed in that situation

I think those rules are relatively generous. if anyone wants to amend them please do so-- I was just thinking that we want to keep things moving and am not wedded to any of the times or rules that much . Our reality in the past was that most players were very quick and more than made up for the people that had to be slower. I just like to have rules so if there is any question during the drafts there is no reason for some of the strong personalities to clash.

Oh and I noticed the football bunch did a lot of sending their picks to other people to keep the draft moving-- I think we should encourage that

[snoopy369]

I wouldn't suggest limiting managers; adding additional managers makes the league more complex and strategically interesting. The problem with the waiver wire being poor is the opposite - it makes the league less interesting because of the difficulty competing if you have a couple of injuries. (Really what ends up is with tight benches, you have to keep more 'safe' players and fewer reaches [rookies, etc.], and that means that you end up having more interesting talent on the wire.) Certainly the two elements go against each other, but the added complexity I think is more interesting.

If you're right and 180 is still decent quality, then I'm okay with it. Is that true for both wingers, though (particularly RW)?

As regarding BAPAYs, I think we need to stick to NA awake-time (8am-10pm central, 9am-11pm eastern, 6am-8pm pacific, or something like that). We're still mostly NA players, and none of us are going to be picking in our sleep. Otherwise you need at least 12 hours for all picks - you can easily go through a half dozen picks at 9pm or so, and come up at 11:30pm or something when you're not expecting it.

You could always make it 4 hour BAPAY during the day local time, and 8 hours between 10pm-6am local time, in fact; I'd live with 8 hours (there's little chance it hits JUST before you sleep, and how many of us sleep 8 hours ) and that way it adjusts for each player. We'd just have to remember what local time is what [though Poly is nice about showing that, as long as you have your time zone set right].

Also - is BAPAY by "Overall" or by "Actual"? (IE, projection or last year's stats) I think Actual adjusts to the league's scoring, which eliminates PIMs (though also eliminates rookies and seriously injured players)

[Flubber]

Also - is BAPAY by "Overall" or by "Actual"? (IE, projection or last year's stats) I think Actual adjusts to the league's scoring, which eliminates PIMs (though also eliminates rookies and seriously injured players)

My recollection was that the BAPAY list for hockey was pretty simple. It ranked players based on I believe 10 categories (our 8 plus PIM and GAA)-- I don't know if you can do a list weighted to our 8 categories and frankly don't think we should bother. Except for a few very obvious PIM guys, the default yahoo rankings would work well. I think its pretty self evident that you don't BAPAY a guy in the second round with a winger with 40 points and 200 PIM. Anyway I cannot check yahoo right now as their free draft kit does not show up for me yet. I perused their "fantasy hockey help" but links back to "fantasy hockey " do not work and the help section indicates Sepember 3 as the start date.


A note on depth -- according to NHL.com the 42nd best scorer (I chose that mark for 14 teams times 3 players at the position) for each of left and right wings was someone that scored exactly 40 points. Centers? There are 73 that had 40 points are more while 28 defenceme achieved that.

[Flubber]

I found an article that claims yahoo hockey should be up today but this conflicts with what the help features say which was Sept 3. This article also lists and then mocks the auto-list. There are a few headscratchers for sure but always remember that this is a default list where PIM could move a guy up or down.

Yahoo! Fantasy Hockey: The Top 100 players for 2009-10
By Greg Wyshynski




Not a day goes by when we aren't asked about Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Hockey, which speaks both to the quality of that product (our fantasy game of choice long before Puck Daddy arrived) and the insatiable addiction of fantasy GMs to get cracking on defending their titles/overcoming their failures/avoiding Rick DiPietro(notes) in the auto-draft.

We've gotten word from the Y! Fantasy Sports team that hockey should be up and running some time today. In anticipation of that, we're publishing the Top 100 players, ranked for the auto-draft. One look at this list, and you're definitely going to want to make sure you adjust your default settings -- there are some mind-blowers here.

The year, Y! Sports used the Rotowire draft kit rankings to establish the default list, which is found below. Here's the Top 10:

1 Alexander Ovechkin(notes), LW

2 Evgeni Malkin, C

3 Sidney Crosby, C

4 Zach Parise(notes), LW

5 Corey Perry(notes), RW

6 Ryan Getzlaf(notes), C

7 Jeff Carter(notes), C

8 Mike Green(notes), D

9 Jarome Iginla(notes), RW

10 Pavel Datsyuk(notes), C

Interesting that Iginla would remain that high, considering Mike Cammalleri is now with the Montreal Canadiens. Not nearly as interesting as Zach Parise at No. 4 on a Jacques Lemaire team or Corey Perry ranking higher than Anaheim Ducks teammate Ryan Getzlaf, but interesting nonetheless.

11 Evgeni Nabokov(notes), G

12 Henrik Zetterberg(notes), LW

13 Ilya Kovalchuk(notes), RW

14 Miikka Kiprusoff(notes), G

15 Alexander Semin(notes), LW

16 Rick Nash(notes), LW

17 Marian Gaborik(notes), RW

18 Dion Phaneuf(notes), D

19 Patrick Kane(notes), RW

20 Vincent Lecavalier(notes), C

Otherwise known as the "health be damned" section. Gaborik could be outstanding with the New York Rangers and Semin's always going to be an offensive force with the Washington Capitals, but durability plays a factor here, no?

Nabokov as far and away the top goalie? Huh ... wins, sure, but GAA and shutouts?

21 Niklas Backstrom(notes), G

22 Nicklas Backstrom(notes), C

23 Daniel Sedin(notes), LW

24 Martin St. Louis(notes), RW

25 Eric Staal(notes), C

26 Marc Savard(notes), C

27 Mike Richards(notes), C

28 Martin Brodeur, G

29 Dany Heatley(notes), RW

30 Cam Ward(notes), G

If you're drafting just outside of the Top 20, chances are you're getting a dude named Backstrom.

31 Simon Gagne, LW

32 Henrik Lundqvist, G

33 Jason Spezza(notes), C

34 Michael Cammalleri(notes), C

35 Marian Hossa(notes), RW

36 Jonathan Toews(notes), C

37 Roberto Luongo(notes), G

38 Patrik Elias(notes), LW

39 Dan Boyle(notes), D

40 Chris Osgood(notes), G

41 Tim Thomas(notes), G

You understand why we went to No. 41 in this segment. Tim Thomas is a Vezina winner who returns to a stout defensive team in the Boston Bruins. Chris Osgood is a goaltender whose great postseason followed a very average regular season with the Detroit Red Wings that saw him need time off to collect himself. Again, not to Ozzie-bash ... but seriously?

42 Joe Thornton(notes), C

43 Patrick Marleau(notes), C

44 Johan Franzen(notes), RW

45 Marc-Andre Fleury(notes), G

46 Devin Setoguchi(notes), RW

47 Marty Turco(notes), G

48 Jason Blake(notes), LW

49 Joe Pavelski(notes), LW

50 Shea Weber(notes), D

Turco at No. 47 is too high if it's that dude who impersonated him last season, but pretty good if it's actually Marty Turco again.

51 Cristobal Huet(notes), G

52 Zdeno Chara(notes), D

53 Ryan Miller(notes), G

54 Martin Havlat(notes), RW

55 David Backes(notes), RW

56 Alexei Kovalev, RW

57 Shane Doan(notes), RW

58 Chris Pronger(notes), D

59 David Booth(notes), LW

60 Thomas Vanek(notes), LW

Vanek is super low for a guy who hordes power-play points. Ditto Havlat who could post some great numbers if he's healthy and Coach Todd Richards's system with the Minnesota Wild is a little more run-and-gun.

61 Tomas Vokoun(notes), G

62 Scott Hartnell(notes), RW

63 Bill Guerin(notes), RW

64 Derek Roy(notes), C

65 Daniel Alfredsson(notes), RW

66 Nicklas Lidstrom(notes), D

67 Ray Whitney(notes), LW

68 Dustin Brown(notes), RW

69 Steve Mason(notes), G

70 Bobby Ryan, RW

Go ahead and be the guy who takes Bill Guerin over Daniel Alfredsson. We dare you.

71 Olli Jokinen(notes), C

72 Ilya Bryzgalov(notes), G

73 Alex Frolov, LW

74 Michael Frolik(notes), LW

75 Ray Emery(notes), G

76 Jamie Langenbrunner(notes), RW

77 Anze Kopitar(notes), C

78 Phil Kessel(notes), LW

79 Brad Boyes(notes), RW

80 Pekka Rinne(notes), G

Kopitar ... Kopitar ... Kopitar ... ah, there he is. Pekka Rinne of the Nashville Predators is a solid pick in goal, provided there isn't yet another backup goalie ready to steal a Nashville goalie's job, as per franchise policy.

81 David Krejci, C

82 Sheldon Souray(notes), D

83 Scott Niedermayer(notes), D

84 Milan Michalek(notes), RW

85 Ryan Smyth(notes), LW

86 Henrik Sedin(notes), C

87 Kristian Huselius(notes), LW

88 Nikolai Zherdev(notes), RW

89 Jason Pominville(notes), LW

90 Steven Stamkos(notes), C

Ah, sweet glorious auto-draft. You will bestow upon some lazy GM Nikolai Zherdev much like you bestowed Alex Radulov on others many moons ago ...

91 Brian Rafalski(notes), D

92 Kris Versteeg(notes), RW

93 Joffrey Lupul(notes), RW

94 Mike Knuble(notes), RW

95 Chris Kunitz(notes), LW

96 Andrei Markov(notes), D

97 Jay Bouwmeester(notes), D

98 Mark Streit(notes), D

99 Alexandre Burrows, RW

100 Travis Zajac(notes), C

Among the notable players outside the Top 100 are No. 1 overall pick Jonathan Tavares (102), Teemu Selanne(notes) (104), Milan Hejduk(notes) (106), Brian Campbell(notes) (120), Scott Gomez(notes) (127), Keith Tkachuk(notes) (140), Jonathan Cheechoo(notes) (153) and Pavol Demitra(notes) (172). Mr. 200 is Ryan Suter(notes) of the Predators.

[Flubber]

Oh and the more I look at the list the more I am puzzled-- Brodeur and Luongo seem badly out of place-- I mean I like Kipper and all but having him at # 14 just seems WRONG-- There is part of me that wonders if this list is a bit of a joke, but enough elements of it are accurate or arguable that its probably not.

I just don't recall seeing so many things that looked odd last year-- IN particular the goalies just seem wrong-- did they use voodoo/ Ray Emery at no. 75 ?? Osgood only 4 spots behind Luongo and with no goalies in-between-- ya Luongo/Osgood is an either or proposition -- just try that trade straight up LOL!

BAPAYing from this list could lead to some weird looking results. I'm still fine with the BAPAY idea though-- If a manager doesn't like this list they should create their own

[Kontiki]

That is one amazingly crap-ass list.

[snoopy369]

Flubber, the way BAPAY works (in all of the other leagues) is you go to the available player screen and sort by (something). Most often 'Actual', though both 'Projected' and 'Actual' have advantages/disadvantages.

It not only allows you to sort by position and such, but it allows you [the commish] to remove players once drafted so we can be sure to find the correct BAPAY, as long as the BAPAYer is not an idiot.