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  • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
    Sounds like a win-win to me. You swear at me, you get banned. Everyone is happy.
    Very much doubt everyone would be happy for banning me for going to town on you.

    I also cited his stats which were atrocious.

    As usual you ignore inconvenient facts.
    Atrocious? As usual you are a ****ing retard. They were similar to Raycroft's stats, but unlike Raycroft, Macklebackup's stats reflect the fact that he was mostly used as a sacrificial lamb -- thrown into games already long-lost without warmup behind a team that was playing brutally. You can't use those stats given those circumstances and the small sample size to make sweeping judgements about his play.

    If you look at the games he started and the team played for him, like vs Edmonton, he's a good player. Even during most of those games he was thrown to the wolves in, he played well but the defense infront of him was brutal.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • I think we now have positive proof that Ben is Dale's DL
      Now that Kidiot has fled and Spicer still hasn't, I'd just like to remind people that anyone that wouldn't attend the marriage of their own child just because they were gay, is the worst kind of crappy parent.
      RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

      Comment


      • Very much doubt everyone would be happy for banning me for going to town on you.
        Then announce that you are leaving forever, and see how people respond...

        Atrocious? As usual you are a ****ing retard. They were similar to Raycroft's stats,
        He was allowing half a goal a game more. That's significant. Over the course of say 20 games, that's another 10 goals. For a team that finished -5 in differential, -15 will have you finish well out of the division lead.

        small sample size to make sweeping judgements about his play.
        7 games >>>> 1 game. If you are arguing sample sizes...
        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
        “A word or a smile is often enough to put fresh life in a despondent soul.” Ste Therese.
        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

        Comment


        • I think we now have positive proof that Ben is Dale's DL


          Hush now, rah.
          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
          “A word or a smile is often enough to put fresh life in a despondent soul.” Ste Therese.
          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
            Then announce that you are leaving forever, and see how people respond...
            It's been done.

            7 games >>>> 1 game. If you are arguing sample sizes...
            Hey, you are the epic retard that singled out that game. Not me.

            You're doubly screwed here. You obviously just like it.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment


            • Poly was greatly improved IIRC.
              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
              “A word or a smile is often enough to put fresh life in a despondent soul.” Ste Therese.
              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

              Comment


              • I'm sure you thought so.
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post


                  Demolished? You did nothing to address the fact that over the body of work last season, the Canucks now have the superior back up.
                  I don't think it matters much who has the superior backup the key will be how well the first line goalies play and whether they stay healthy. If Kipper is better, the Flames should win the division. OH and I freely admit the superiority of Luongo over Kipper.

                  But if we MUST compare the two backups lets look at al the facts heh??

                  Racroft

                  --had some small NHL experience over 3 seasons before he broke out as the Bruins goalie in 2003-2004 playing in 57 games and posting an excellent .926 sv %. He has never been anywhere near as good since, across 3 different teams, as his best sv % since is .892 over 72 games in 06-07 and he has twice had years with sv %s in the .870s (much fewer games). IN fact in the 4 years since his breakout year, his sv% is worse with the fewer number of games he plays-- see gp and sv % by year below

                  30-.879
                  72- .894
                  19-.876
                  31- .892

                  So overall you have a 29 year old keeper with one great year, 7 years of experience, and a history that doesn't suggest he is stellar when he plays little

                  Mcelhinney

                  is slightly younger(26) and far more inexperienced. He has appeared in a grand total of 19 games in the NHL in his careeer (and one of those was 12 seconds). Last year he started a grand total of SIX games and as Asher said, the Flames generally failed to show up. He faced on average slightly more than 37 shots per start and having watched most of those starts I know that generally he held the team in for a while before the multiple breakaways and defensive breakdowns left him high and dry too often and the goals started to come.

                  With such limited time its hard to fully assess his abilities-- he is a bit of an unknown. The belief in Calgary is that the last game of last season where he FINALLY got a win with a 35 save .972 should get the "never won" monkey off his back and the fact that he has pretty decent skills should mean reasonably good performance.

                  The theory is that with a new coach perhaps they stay focused to actually play for the poor guy and overall better defense and more starts should see him in good stead to do just fine.


                  The reality is that we really do not know what to expect but my prediction is that they tentatively give McElhinney 15 starts or more and with the added experience and confidence, he does just fine.


                  Is he better than Raycroft? I really don't care. If he plays well while giving Kipper more of a break, I will be happy
                  You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                  • Blackhawks re-re-sign Versteeg. Three years, $9.25MM.
                    Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
                    RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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                    • Originally posted by Sava View Post
                      I love the Jokinen argument.
                      and I love that you waded in-- I'm always happy to debate or just shoot the breeze with people that pay attention to hockey.

                      Originally posted by Sava View Post

                      You guys failed to mention that he scored all his Flames regular season goals in the first six games (a hat trick on 3/14 against Gerber of all people... 2 of which were on the PP), then disappeared until Game 4. He's also on the wrong side of 30, has seen both his goal and point total decline 3 straight years, and is -85 for his career.


                      .
                      I failed to mention none of those things. They are all good and valid points (one correction is his point totals have dipped for the last TWO years not three-- 06-07 was his peak with 91 after 89 the year before, and he has had 71 and 57 in the ensuing years). I confess I am concerned by his drop off. But with the flames his goal per game rate in the regular season would net 35 if pro-rated for an entire season-- a level I would be completely happy with-- I would have liked to see more assists though as he typically had more assists than goals.

                      Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of concern over the fact that Jokkinen did not really produce well in the playoffs but there are some positives

                      - the guy will hit-- I saw several games where he dished out some punishing hits
                      - I think he is a slightly better passer than Cammy

                      Other than those I concurr in worrying about how good Jokkinen will be. But being right at 30 years of age I see no reason why he cannot be a very good number 1 or 2 centre on the Flames.

                      Originally posted by Sava View Post



                      Cammalleri, OTOH, just turned 27 and is coming off a career year in goals and points.

                      .
                      Perfectly true. While I don't see 3 years as a huge difference at 27 to 30 it does mean there is a little more upside for Cammy . I see Cammy as a far better pure shooter but not nearly as physical and not quite as good playmaker as Jokkinen. Having seen Cammy all year I know that a LOT of his goals are on that patented one-timer of his. He will be missed.


                      IN a non-salary cap world where the only consideration was the player, would I trade Cammy away for Jokkinen straight up? I probably wouldn't but I can understand for the Flames how that question would at least be arguable. The Flames want to be more physical and "in-your-face" and that is an element Jokkinen can bring.As well the Flames have desparately trying to find a great set-up man for Iginla. I don't know that Jokkinen will fit that bill but he has a better chance of fulfilling that role than Cammy IMHO.

                      Overall I thought it was a decent try at the trade deadline to get Jokkinen.. I don't regret that move and am willing to give Jokkinen this season to prove himself. I do regret that salary cap issues mean we lose cammaleri but there the reality is that the Boumeester signing is probably the main reason there is no Cammaleri in Calgary.

                      Originally posted by Sava View Post

                      Iginla could be good for 40 goals. 50 would be a stretch, but wouldn't surprise me. Although, he had a terrible playoffs. 3 goals, well, 1 was an empty netter. And he was -4.


                      .
                      Iggy needs to be better and show me more. I fear he is starting to decline generally and I was completely unimpressed by his playoff effort

                      Originally posted by Sava View Post

                      Calgary can hope for second in their division and a first round exit at best.
                      .
                      I see the smiley but will give my assessment/refutation anyway

                      Last year the Flames had

                      -- a Kipper that was so-so
                      -- a Phaneuf that was worse defensively than the previous year
                      -- an injured Regehr
                      -- a coach that overplayed veterans, had no real system and who juggled his lines about every 30 seconds

                      and the Flames missed winning the division by what, a point?


                      Since then they have obtained a very successful coach and perhaps the best d-man available. The blue line looks solid even if Phaneuf is shaky and blue-chip if he returns to prior form.

                      So I think you have to consider the Flames to be contenders for the division. Given how Vancouver have essentially stood still, I would think the Flames would be favored.


                      1st round playoff exit?? Depends. Asher may disagree with me but I see the last two years as ones where even a moderately elite Kipper would have seen them win the series. IMHO he has been paid to be a top 10 goalie in the league and has NOT performed at that level. If he does, the Flames are now designed to be able to take out pretty much any team in the league-- To me though, its a big question mark.

                      Its why , despite my defence of McElhinney and belief in his possibilities, I wished the Flames had picked up a more experienced backup -- you know the kind that might play well enough to earn back to back starts. I am frankly sick of the idea that it is good to play Kipper all the time
                      Last edited by Flubber; July 9, 2009, 16:17.
                      You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                      Comment


                      • Its why , despite my defence of McElhinney and belief in his possibilities, I wished the Flames had picked up a more experienced backup -- you know the kind that might play well enough to earn back to back starts. I am frankly sick of the idea that it is good to play Kipper all the time
                        That strategy cost you the division. Had he been more rested, he would have continued a high level of play.

                        Kipper's a good goalie, but you folks played him way too much. Hopefully the kid can step up.

                        I wish the canucks kept Labarbera tho. Good goalie.
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
                        “A word or a smile is often enough to put fresh life in a despondent soul.” Ste Therese.
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                          That strategy cost you the division. Had he been more rested, he would have continued a high level of play.
                          Perhaps-- BUt last year I never saw a "high level" of play from Kipper that appreciably dropped off as the season went on. He was just simply 'ok" for most of the year IMHO


                          Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post

                          Kipper's a good goalie, but you folks played him way too much. Hopefully the kid can step up.
                          I agree. I have never really believed that there is any benefit to a goalie's long term play to appear in any more than 60 games (I am not saying it hurts). To me the only reason to work your number 1 any more than in the 60s is if you are tooth and nail to make the playoffs.

                          I think the kid will step up and I am hoping that Calgary will demonstrate a dominating defence which means fewer shots/chances agains whomever is in net.

                          Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post

                          I wish the canucks kept Labarbera tho. Good goalie.
                          I agree he can be pretty good. I think though that he wants a chance at being more than what he can ever hope for being behind Luongo. Realistically unless Luongo gets injured his maximum playing time would be 20 (more likely 15) games and probably less if the Canucks are pushing for a playoff spot or division win.

                          IN a place like Phoenix he has a chance to start more and perhaps even win the #1 job. I think teams believe he has that potential
                          You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                          • On a more fun note, there's a cool brief CBC vid on Curtis Glencross and what he does at the Stampede in the off-season:

                            http://www.cbc.ca/sports/ondemand/?p...oId=1178918561

                            Still can't believe the Oilers didn't sign him after his stint with them.
                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                            Comment


                            • He would have been good to keep around, but rumours were he was asking a lot more than he ended up signing for in Calgary.

                              In my mind it played out as a 'you don't think I'm worth it? Well I'll show you..." It may not have been that way, but that was my impression.
                              (\__/)
                              (='.'=)
                              (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                              • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                                Is Tallon fired before the season starts?

                                Not a difficult call.

                                Heard on local radio. Link confirms:
                                http://csnchicago.com/pages/new_land...735&feedID=661
                                Mora: Blackhawks Fire GM Dale Tallon

                                CSNChicago.com

                                CSN's Josh Mora is reporting that the Blackhawks have fired GM Dale Tallon and an official announcement will be made on Tuesday.

                                Tallon has recently come under fire when the team failed to get qualifying offers out in time to several restricted free agents including Kris Versteeg.

                                Stan Bowman will replace Tallon as GM.

                                Tune into SportsNite at 12 for complete coverage from CSN's Josh Mora.
                                (\__/)
                                (='.'=)
                                (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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