Will Trump be back ?

[Jon Miller]

We almost stopped being a democracy under Trump. After being a relatively healthy democracy under Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton and Obama. I am not (now) one of those liberals who think Bush (Jr) and Reagan were disasters for democracy (I admit that some on the left paint everyone right of Clinton or even as Obama as emergencies for democracy).

For the most part it was done openly. Or was reported directly.

Even stagflation (which we may or may not see) pales in comparison to this.

JM

[My Wife Hates CIV]

[Jon Miller]

If you want places where I was wrong:

While the Hunter laptop story was completely ridiculous, it turns out to be true.

This doesn't mean that all the accusations related to it are true. And it still has the very serious provenance issues (you can't use it in a court of law).

But can you use it to motivate an investigation? Sure.

JM
(thanks Jrabbit)

[Jon Miller]

Also, while a possible server backchannel between Trump and Russia is suspicious, for the most part no one cares due to everything else which was a hundred or a thousand or a million times worse.

This has been some of the whole problem. Minor things that would have been a big deal to Clinton or Bush or Biden are just small compared to Trump's behavior. Including what Trump did in the open.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Russian collusion - false

Hillary Clinton personally approved her campaign's plans in fall 2016 to share information with a reporter about an uncorroborated alleged server backchannel between Donald Trump and a top Russian bank - which was false

Adam - Rep. Adam Schiff of California, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, said there is "plenty of evidence of collusion or conspiracy in plain sight" regarding the Trump campaign and Russia - false

none of these turned out to be true.

do you agree that these are now lies that have been confirmed lies Jon?

Russian collusion is not a confirmed lie.

Mueller was unable to prove Russian collusion as true or not due to obstruction. Something that is unconfirmed is neither a confirmed lie or a confirmed truth.

It was not proven. Whether true or not true, it was not maintained as an effort to oust Trump by the democrats. It had nothing to do with either of Trump's impeachments, for example. It is proven that Russia aided Trump in 2016 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...in-2016-198171) and that Trump asked Russia for aid (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...d-her-accounts). Just because that is not proven collusion does not mean that there was a lie being used to oust Trump. Mueller is a Republican and not Democrat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller).

A lie is a known falsehood. You know, like the lie that voter fraud is responsible for Trump's lost in 2020. It is being shown over and over again that many/most of the people involved knew it was not truth as they promoted it either to the American people or to Trump. There is some evidence that Trump knew it wasn't true as well (although some people said.. Barr? that Trump was detached from reality, in which case it was the big lie for all sorts of people in the administration but not necessarily for Trump ).

JM
(of course, someone detached from reality should never be close to the presidency)

[Jon Miller]

it is very clear trump lost. it is very clear hillary lost. so lets remember this pattern of not being able to see the light did not start with trump.

Who disagreed that Hillary lost?

JM

[Thoth]

He's not fit to be President.

He is also the most likely person to be elected President in 2024.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

[My Wife Hates CIV]

[dannubis]

EDIT : To PLATO:

Putting the obvious political side show aside, are you not concerned he seems completely incompatible with the normal democratic change in power?

I watched the testimonies of 3 senior staunch republicans who said Trump himself put pressure on them to take illegal actions in the aftermath of elections (in an effort to overturn the results...)

[My Wife Hates CIV]

[Jon Miller]

What lie did the dems maintain for 4 years as part of an attempt to oust Trump?

JM

[PLATO]

This is nonsense.

JM

Hey Jon. I wanted to thank you for a different post when you asked me to look deeper into the Jan 6 situation as I had called it "just a riot". I did and learned many interesting things. However, that is not all that I have looked into and if you truly think that there was not any lying and fabrication going on wrt the Dems trying to oust Trump then I would implore you to dig deeper as well.


Both parties have embarrassed themselves over their actions for quite some time now and I believe that crimes have been committed on both sides. It is purely partisan, at this point, to say one side did wrong and another did not.

Now...back to Jan 6. Was it a coup attempt? If so, it was one of the poorer ones in history. Best case is a President honestly believing that an election was being stolen and taking whatever action he could to forestall that. Worst case, imho, is that a megalomaniacal child was throwing a temper tantrum over being rejected by the people. If a true insurrection or coup was being attempted I believe that the President of the United States could have done far more to cause real issues as opposed to sending an unarmed mob to the capital.

So...to the OP. Will Trump be back? I think that a thoughtful person would say that it certainly looks likely that he will run again. I imagine that it could be a very interesting primary season as we see where Republican loyalties truly lay. IF he makes it out of the Primaries, then I think he could take Biden. If Hillary runs, America may just decide that their hatred of her is less than their hatred of Trump or Biden's performance. In any event, it is hard to see a good leader emerging from an environment of increasingly polarized politics.

[Jon Miller]

Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, whom Trump asked to “find” votes in a leaked phone call, testified that Trump received fewer votes than expected because roughly 28,000 Republicans who voted didn’t choose a president that year, supporting GOP candidates for other offices instead.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/21/jan-6-hearing-will-focus-on-trumps-pressure-on-georgias-raffensperger-others-to-overturn-2020-election.html

It is clear who lost the election.

JM

[Jon Miller]

lets all remember the dems lied for 4 years trying to remove a president they didn't like. we all know this now as fact.

This is nonsense.

JM