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  • Proteus_MST
    replied
    Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

    So you admit to being a traitor. Nice.

    I'm not an authoritarian. I never said anything like that. I merely said that treason is bad. You call that being authoritarian LOL.

    You can still be loyal to your own principles and be loyal to your nation. It's not either or. You simply refuse to harm your own nation by siding with foreigners over it.
    So, in case of Hitler germany you would side with people faithful to the Nazi-government and not with people who work against said government (like the sisters Scholl, or the conspirators around Stauffenberg)...
    and in case of North Korea you also are on the side who stand firm on the side of their government and not on the side of those who work against it (or try to flee)

    Leave a comment:


  • Kidicious
    replied
    Originally posted by Aeson View Post

    I believe in the right of the individual to determine their own self interest. You are a collectivist that feels only the national government can determine what is right for the people. You are authoritarian and against freedom of speach and religion

    As for loyalty, it is a different topic than self determination. Those who put loyalty to nation over all else and claim those who disagree are traitors are by definition fascists. You are a fascist.

    My own loyalty is to my ideals and family. A government should be loyal to it’s citizens, not the other way around.
    So you admit to being a traitor. Nice.

    I'm not an authoritarian. I never said anything like that. I merely said that treason is bad. You call that being authoritarian LOL.

    You can still be loyal to your own principles and be loyal to your nation. It's not either or. You simply refuse to harm your own nation by siding with foreigners over it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeson
    replied
    Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

    The people of a nation share a common interest that other people don't share. If that doesn't apply to you maybe you are a traitor.

    Basically you're saying, "what about people that are loyal to another nation besides their own?"
    I believe in the right of the individual to determine their own self interest. You are a collectivist that feels only the national government can determine what is right for the people. You are authoritarian and against freedom of speach and religion

    As for loyalty, it is a different topic than self determination. Those who put loyalty to nation over all else and claim those who disagree are traitors are by definition fascists. You are a fascist.

    My own loyalty is to my ideals and family. A government should be loyal to it’s citizens, not the other way around.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dauphin
    replied
    Originally posted by Dinner View Post
    The hilarious part is the left continues to pretend they do not understand what the self determination of people's is all about or why people would wish self determination.

    Everything else is subordinate to that. The laws shall be written in Britain, passed by elected representatives of the British people, those representatives shall be elected by the British people, and those laws shall be reviewed by British courts and British courts alone. That is self determination and we shall have it again.
    How do you feel about Scottish independence? Or welsh? Or Cornish? Or Yorkshire? Or london? Or any other administrative unit that may reasonably exist with ‘sovereignty’.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dauphin
    replied
    Originally posted by Dinner View Post

    That area is affordable but colder than any where in the UK including the shetland islands. Are you willing to put up with that kind of cold? We are talking continental type cold.

    I am from North America and I will not do it. I need pleasant coastal breezes and a Mediterranean type climate.
    Toronto is cold in the winter? Well, I never knew that. Thanks for educating me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kidicious
    replied
    Originally posted by pchang View Post
    Self determination = The Sovereign State of ME!!!!

    NEWSLETTERDONATE
    Sep 21, 2017Self-determination



    All peoples have the right to self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. UNPO's Members are indigenous peoples, minorities, unrecognised States and occupied territories that have joined together to promote their right to self-determination, while also defending their political, social and cultural rights and preserving their environments.







    What is Self-determination?

    Essentially, the right to self-determination is the right of a people to determine its own destiny. In particular, the principle allows a people to choose its own political status and to determine its own form of economic, cultural and social development. Exercise of this right can result in a variety of different outcomes ranging from political independence through to full integration within a state. The importance lies in the right of choice, so that the outcome of a people's choice should not affect the existence of the right to make a choice. In practice, however, the possible outcome of an exercise of self-determination will often determine the attitude of governments towards the actual claim by a people or nation. Thus, while claims to cultural autonomy may be more readily recognized by states, claims to independence are more likely to be rejected by them. Nevertheless, the right to self-determination is recognized in international law as a right of process (not of outcome) belonging to peoples and not to states or governments.
    You have proven Dinner right. Why would you do that?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kidicious
    replied
    Originally posted by Aeson View Post
    What detemines what is self determination is relative to the person. Pretending self determination can only be achieved through a national structure is trying to take away the self determination of those who want to be represented on other scales.
    The people of a nation share a common interest that other people don't share. If that doesn't apply to you maybe you are a traitor.

    Basically you're saying, "what about people that are loyal to another nation besides their own?"
    Last edited by Kidicious; December 21, 2018, 03:29.

    Leave a comment:


  • pchang
    replied
    Self determination = The Sovereign State of ME!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • pchang
    commented on 's reply
    We?????????

  • Aeson
    replied
    What detemines what is self determination is relative to the person. Pretending self determination can only be achieved through a national structure is trying to take away the self determination of those who want to be represented on other scales.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinner
    replied
    The hilarious part is the left continues to pretend they do not understand what the self determination of people's is all about or why people would wish self determination.

    Everything else is subordinate to that. The laws shall be written in Britain, passed by elected representatives of the British people, those representatives shall be elected by the British people, and those laws shall be reviewed by British courts and British courts alone. That is self determination and we shall have it again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kidicious
    replied
    You don't even know what you are talking about. You live in California.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinner
    replied
    Originally posted by Dauphin View Post
    Family originally. Centre of family is now around the great lakes more of less (Minneapolis/Chicago/Toronto/New York state) and so a move to North America is inevitable.
    That area is affordable but colder than any where in the UK including the shetland islands. Are you willing to put up with that kind of cold? We are talking continental type cold.

    I am from North America and I will not do it. I need pleasant coastal breezes and a Mediterranean type climate.
    Last edited by Dinner; December 20, 2018, 21:51.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kidicious
    commented on 's reply
    Oh by definition.

  • pchang
    commented on 's reply
    Umm yes. By definition, the EU cares about each of its member states.
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