Brexit divorce deal

[BlackCat]

It will be abundantly clear who created the land border when the UK doesn't bother to create customs posts but the EU does force Ireland to.

Are you seriously claiming that UK won't set up customs ? Hey, why are there customs posts between USA and Mexico ? Do you really believe that UK can say "we won't want to have custom points to EU" ???? What fantasy world do you live in ?

Team that up with the EC demanding huge increases in money from members because under no deal the UK doesn't have to pay it anything,

You are totally wrong - no matter whether its a soft or hard brexit, the UK can in no way deny to pay what they owe.

add in how pissed off the east is over the demands to accept fake refugees, and I'd say the EU is stumbling into yet another crisis.

Are you seriously claiming that all of these refugees automatically went to UK ?

Especially when economies start taking a hit all because the EC was too arrogant and incompetent. Hell, Trump wants to tariff the EU anyway so all May needs to do is convince Trump to continue with his own worst instincts and you'll see German industry ****ting its pants. In light of all that, yes, I do think the only two heads of state in the EU who matter (Germany anand France) will force the EC to change its tune.

You really have some special fantasies - do you really sincerely think that german industry will die if they don't have access to the UK Market ???? This is simply hilarious

[Bereta_Eder]

The EU is a gigantic conglomerate of 500 million people and the largest economy on the planet. If it coughs, you'd notice. The eastern states xenophobic governments are giving wway to more rational people seeing that as usualy xenophobia and stealing of the public's money go hand in hand. Immigration is not capable of shaking the EU, it just showcases its continued success. Furthermore, the moronic decistion of the mind addled UK to commit harakiri and become an isolated shunned pariah has a great job in solidifying support for the continuation of the EU project from the nordic and baltic sea to the eastern med.

[Dinner]

It will be abundantly clear who created the land border when the UK doesn't bother to create customs posts but the EU does force Ireland to. Team that up with the EC demanding huge increases in money from members because under no deal the UK doesn't have to pay it anything, add in how pissed off the east is over the demands to accept fake refugees, and I'd say the EU is stumbling into yet another crisis.

Especially when economies start taking a hit all because the EC was too arrogant and incompetent. Hell, Trump wants to tariff the EU anyway so all May needs to do is convince Trump to continue with his own worst instincts and you'll see German industry ****ting its pants. In light of all that, yes, I do think the only two heads of state in the EU who matter (Germany anand France) will force the EC to change its tune.

[Bereta_Eder]

Ireland has the solid backing of 25 european countries against the UK. I don't think it EVER had more power than now vis a vis its neighbor. It can basically do whatever it likes. The UK is pretty much like dinner completely detached from reality which is repeadedly slapping it hard across the face. The EU isn't doing that. The UK is crumbling, it has political crisis after crisis. The EU hasn't even broken a sweat.

[BlackCat]

Ireland says it doesn't want a border, the UK says it doesn't want a border... So it will be up to the EU to demand Ireland create a border. Which really shows the lie that there is nothing the EU can do because if there is a border it will be because the EU demands on and only because of that.

Sure, Ireland isn't comfortable with this, but they are part of the EU so they of course accept it. Anyway, UK could simply accept a hard border between NI and the rest of the UK and there wouldn't be any problems - for some stupid reasons the UK won't accept this simple solution.

[Bereta_Eder]

let me make it plain for you. You have a law that you shouldn't cross the street when the light is red. You also have a law that says you shouldn't rob people. You are equating these two laws and say they are equally important for the function of a law abiding state and society. deficits can be reversed (hell Greece is a prime example we had 18% deficit, not just 3%). Restriction on movement cannot be "temporarily lifted" or "exempted". Variable geometry only functions ons some things. I know whta I said goes over your head, so just try to imagine the crossing the road with a red light and the robbing example. It would be easier for you.

[Bereta_Eder]

Also you seem to erronseously believe that I share your idea of what Putin is, or England is, for our interests.

[Bereta_Eder]

You're both bambling and don't make any sense. Calm down. When you decide to actually decide to make a point I'd answer it as well. Just a minor note, pchang you're about as clueless of the EU as dinner. Did you really try to equatte the 3% ceiling on deficit with one of the 4 fundemental pillars of what actually constitutes the EU constitution? you're just showing your cluelesness. As for kid or putin? I'm paiktis, I'm from Greece

[pchang]

Where are you getting your ideas about the EU? The EU ignoring the 3% budget deficit rules is a classic case of "Undemocratic Bureaucrats" acceding to the wishes of the democratically elected member states. You are trying to have it both ways. The real problem with the EU is that it lacks power. You need unanimous agreement among all member states in order to do anything real. This is why the Articles of Confederation failed. As for Brexit, the UK has finally found a way to unite the other EU member states while also voluntarily giving up its EU vote. No wonder why Putin supports Brexit. When you find yourself on the same side as Kid and Putin, you really should re-think your views and sources.

[Dinner]

If the EU isn't a liar and it genuinely does just care so damn much about Ireland, as it has claimed adnoseum, then it can indeed provide and exemption for the Irish land border. Ireland is peripheral to the EU and most of its trade goes through the UK anyway. The effect on the "common market" would be so minor as to not even be noticed by the EU. So the only reason not to do so (for the land border anyway) would be because they truly are bad faith actors.

That would remove the blocking issue (namely the arrogant demand for the completely unneeded backstop which will be rejected by Parliament anyway) and would probably result in the modified deal going forward. Failing that there is my preferred method of just saying no deal and walking with the EU getting nothing and its budget going immediately into crisis. Those are the only realistic options at this point.

I fully expect to see the arrogant and incompetent European Commission to continue to refuse to face reality and for no deal to be the result just like the E.C. ****ed up the negotiations before the Brexit vote proving it was unreformable and resulting in the Brexit vote passing to begin with. Make no mistake, this is a repeated failure of the EU as an institution and shows it is not reformable.

[Bereta_Eder]

Ireland doesn't a want a border isn't translated to Ireland will choose to exit the EU than create a border. And that's all that matters really. Ireland's choice and wellbeing. And I dount it would be so irrational like the UK to *think* it can have it all. It's called not being a man child.

[Dinner]

On a practical note, what happens to the border under no deal......

If the U.K. and Ireland don’t put up a border, what will the EU do?

Ireland says it doesn't want a border, the UK says it doesn't want a border... So it will be up to the EU to demand Ireland create a border. Which really shows the lie that there is nothing the EU can do because if there is a border it will be because the EU demands on and only because of that.

[Bereta_Eder]

Ireland is a member of the EU and the EU will look out for it 10 times before it even glances to the UK. That said, there are rules. the free movement of goods in one of the 4 pillars of freedom embelished in the maastricth treaty and is cornerstone to the functioning of the EU. it cannot be ignored. If the UK was so interested in peace (let alone... ireland...!) it should have thought about the irrationality of its actions and accept reality instead of ignoring it. wishing that when the commission members would change, its mission would change is beyond clueless. Really, I don't know wether to laugh or cry. no matter the members of the commission which are elected through govs that are democratically elected, the principles will remain the same: furthering the EU integration and looking out for its core interests, of which the UK is no part anymore.

[Dinner]

It is the EU which has kept insisting that it is just so, so concerned about Ireland. Of course, it is not, and the only thing it is interested in is using this supposed issue to try to entrap the UK into being stuck in the vile customs union. Thus all of the EU's lies about being "concerned" should simply be ignored as should their equally vile and dishonest "backstop". That is why the dictated terms should simply be rejected.

In time, the arrogant current members of the unelected European Commission will be replaced and then an actual fair and equitable trade agreement will be signed. That is really all the UK wants anyway.

Lastly "EU rules" are a complete joke in every way, in every shape, and in every form. The EU makes and breaks it's own rules almost on a daily basis ignoring them whenever they want. Remember the 3% budget deficit cap? Yeah, that got enforced only among weak small nations yet France broke it and nothing happened. I could come up with dozens of examples but I think you get the point.

[Bereta_Eder]

depends on the mood. there are lots of choices when it comes to ireland. Ireland would want to judge on one hand its ambition for a unified ireland (which it has) against possible EU sanctions. vis a vis the UK there is no limit.