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  • The hilarious part is the left continues to pretend they do not understand what the self determination of people's is all about or why people would wish self determination.

    Everything else is subordinate to that. The laws shall be written in Britain, passed by elected representatives of the British people, those representatives shall be elected by the British people, and those laws shall be reviewed by British courts and British courts alone. That is self determination and we shall have it again.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • pchang
      pchang commented
      Editing a comment
      We?????????

    • spambot
      spambot commented
      Editing a comment
      Oerdin like to fantasize about being British.

  • What detemines what is self determination is relative to the person. Pretending self determination can only be achieved through a national structure is trying to take away the self determination of those who want to be represented on other scales.
    "tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"

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    • Self determination = The Sovereign State of ME!!!!
      It's never too late to shut the **** up and hope for the best. - Kentonio
      If social security were private, it would be prosecuted as a Ponzi scheme. - me
      Check out https://shauchi.wixsite.com/fire

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      • Originally posted by Aeson View Post
        What detemines what is self determination is relative to the person. Pretending self determination can only be achieved through a national structure is trying to take away the self determination of those who want to be represented on other scales.
        The people of a nation share a common interest that other people don't share. If that doesn't apply to you maybe you are a traitor.

        Basically you're saying, "what about people that are loyal to another nation besides their own?"
        Last edited by Kidicious; December 21, 2018, 03:29.
        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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        • Originally posted by pchang View Post
          Self determination = The Sovereign State of ME!!!!

          NEWSLETTERDONATE
          Sep 21, 2017Self-determination



          All peoples have the right to self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. UNPO's Members are indigenous peoples, minorities, unrecognised States and occupied territories that have joined together to promote their right to self-determination, while also defending their political, social and cultural rights and preserving their environments.







          What is Self-determination?

          Essentially, the right to self-determination is the right of a people to determine its own destiny. In particular, the principle allows a people to choose its own political status and to determine its own form of economic, cultural and social development. Exercise of this right can result in a variety of different outcomes ranging from political independence through to full integration within a state. The importance lies in the right of choice, so that the outcome of a people's choice should not affect the existence of the right to make a choice. In practice, however, the possible outcome of an exercise of self-determination will often determine the attitude of governments towards the actual claim by a people or nation. Thus, while claims to cultural autonomy may be more readily recognized by states, claims to independence are more likely to be rejected by them. Nevertheless, the right to self-determination is recognized in international law as a right of process (not of outcome) belonging to peoples and not to states or governments.
          You have proven Dinner right. Why would you do that?
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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          • Originally posted by Dinner View Post

            That area is affordable but colder than any where in the UK including the shetland islands. Are you willing to put up with that kind of cold? We are talking continental type cold.

            I am from North America and I will not do it. I need pleasant coastal breezes and a Mediterranean type climate.
            Toronto is cold in the winter? Well, I never knew that. Thanks for educating me.
            One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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            • Originally posted by Dinner View Post
              The hilarious part is the left continues to pretend they do not understand what the self determination of people's is all about or why people would wish self determination.

              Everything else is subordinate to that. The laws shall be written in Britain, passed by elected representatives of the British people, those representatives shall be elected by the British people, and those laws shall be reviewed by British courts and British courts alone. That is self determination and we shall have it again.
              How do you feel about Scottish independence? Or welsh? Or Cornish? Or Yorkshire? Or london? Or any other administrative unit that may reasonably exist with ‘sovereignty’.
              One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

                The people of a nation share a common interest that other people don't share. If that doesn't apply to you maybe you are a traitor.

                Basically you're saying, "what about people that are loyal to another nation besides their own?"
                I believe in the right of the individual to determine their own self interest. You are a collectivist that feels only the national government can determine what is right for the people. You are authoritarian and against freedom of speach and religion

                As for loyalty, it is a different topic than self determination. Those who put loyalty to nation over all else and claim those who disagree are traitors are by definition fascists. You are a fascist.

                My own loyalty is to my ideals and family. A government should be loyal to it’s citizens, not the other way around.
                "tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"

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                • Originally posted by Aeson View Post

                  I believe in the right of the individual to determine their own self interest. You are a collectivist that feels only the national government can determine what is right for the people. You are authoritarian and against freedom of speach and religion

                  As for loyalty, it is a different topic than self determination. Those who put loyalty to nation over all else and claim those who disagree are traitors are by definition fascists. You are a fascist.

                  My own loyalty is to my ideals and family. A government should be loyal to it’s citizens, not the other way around.
                  So you admit to being a traitor. Nice.

                  I'm not an authoritarian. I never said anything like that. I merely said that treason is bad. You call that being authoritarian LOL.

                  You can still be loyal to your own principles and be loyal to your nation. It's not either or. You simply refuse to harm your own nation by siding with foreigners over it.
                  I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                  - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                  • Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

                    So you admit to being a traitor. Nice.

                    I'm not an authoritarian. I never said anything like that. I merely said that treason is bad. You call that being authoritarian LOL.

                    You can still be loyal to your own principles and be loyal to your nation. It's not either or. You simply refuse to harm your own nation by siding with foreigners over it.
                    So, in case of Hitler germany you would side with people faithful to the Nazi-government and not with people who work against said government (like the sisters Scholl, or the conspirators around Stauffenberg)...
                    and in case of North Korea you also are on the side who stand firm on the side of their government and not on the side of those who work against it (or try to flee)

                    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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                    • Aeson
                      Aeson commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Nicely done

                  • Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post

                    So, in case of Hitler germany you would side with people faithful to the Nazi-government and not with people who work against said government (like the sisters Scholl, or the conspirators around Stauffenberg)...
                    and in case of North Korea you also are on the side who stand firm on the side of their government and not on the side of those who work against it (or try to flee)

                    Of course not. Hitler hated Germany. He caused it's destruction. Are you seriously claiming that Hitler was good for Germany?
                    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                    Comment


                    • Kid thinks disagreeing with government about what is in your self interest makes a person a traitor ... so Kid was a traitor during the Obama administration?
                      "tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"

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                      • Originally posted by Aeson View Post
                        Kid thinks disagreeing with government about what is in your self interest makes a person a traitor ... so Kid was a traitor during the Obama administration?
                        You are confusing my government with my nation. Same thing Proteus did. Funny, because both of you are governmentophiles. Both of you love government, just anti-nation government.
                        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                        • Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

                          Of course not. Hitler hated Germany. He caused it's destruction. Are you seriously claiming that Hitler was good for Germany?
                          At the beginning Hitlers strategy actually resulted in lots of successes ...
                          he ended the occupation of the Ruhr valley, he managed the unification with Austria and the annexation of half of Czechoslowakia.

                          All things that were good for germany as a nation (although bad for Czechoslowakia) ...
                          even the war against france and poland can be said to have been good for the nation of germany at that time (as they were successful and resulted in gains of lots of land and infrastructure)

                          Things only started to get bad when germany attacked the USSR (but also only later during the campaign ... during the beginning it looked like the Blitzkrieg against russia may be as successful as the war against france).

                          So I totally disagree with you ... for someone living not in our time (where we have the benefit of hindsight), but at the time of the 3rd Reich, the first years of the Hitler regime may actually have looked great ... it may have looked like Hitler would succeed in making germany great again
                          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post

                            At the beginning Hitlers strategy actually resulted in lots of successes ...
                            he ended the occupation of the Ruhr valley, he managed the unification with Austria and the annexation of half of Czechoslowakia.

                            All things that were good for germany as a nation (although bad for Czechoslowakia) ...
                            even the war against france and poland can be said to have been good for the nation of germany at that time (as they were successful and resulted in gains of lots of land and infrastructure)

                            Things only started to get bad when germany attacked the USSR (but also only later during the campaign ... during the beginning it looked like the Blitzkrieg against russia may be as successful as the war against france).

                            So I totally disagree with you ... for someone living not in our time (where we have the benefit of hindsight), but at the time of the 3rd Reich, the first years of the Hitler regime may actually have looked great ... it may have looked like Hitler would succeed in making germany great again
                            No. Hitler had plans for world domination from the beginning. Just because it looked like he was successful, his plans were disastrous. His big mistake wasn't invading Russia. They were going to invade you. But Hitler made your military strong. His mistake was allowing his ally Japan attack America, who was not going to join the war.
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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