Would you be offended if somebody called you an Australian?

[Aeson]

The motives matter in any sane system of laws. Otherwise you're treating 1st degree murder the same as manslaughter.

The US has hate crime laws too, as well as laws against certain types of threats.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The motives matter in any sane system of laws.

Seriously. Those who espouse a view that the motives shouldn't matter in a crime have absolutely no clue how law works.

[Zevico]

Otherwise you're treating 1st degree murder the same as manslaughter.

1st degree murder is a separate crime because it involves pre-meditated planning to carry out an offence. The point being: if you were bent on this course, you're more dangerous because you see no problem with committing crime even given the opportunity for reflection.

So let me put it this way. This woman called someone an Australian. Does that make her more dangerous, more likely to hurt someone in future? Is that really what explained her actions here? I don't think so.

[Aeson]

1st degree murder is a separate crime because it involves pre-meditated planning to carry out an offence.

Yes, motives matter.

So let me put it this way. This woman called someone an Australian. Does that make her more dangerous, more likely to hurt someone in future?

Probably not. If she was Muslim though, it would definitely mean that she couldn't handle freedom and we should install a dictator in the UK.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I still can't get over how America is the last nation with free speech.

You don't have freedom of speech until, in a court of law, you can stand up proudly and repeatedly call the judge a **** without fear of penalties.

Until then, you have restrictions on your "free speech". Just like everyone else. Then it's all just quibbling over where you draw the line.

[Ben Kenobi]

Man, I never thought I'd see the day that Bugs would sell out. Really? Sticking up for the nanny staters telling you what you can or can't say?

Anyways, I'd be flattered, but apparently I'm the only one here.

[Alexander's Horse]

The English still have the class system - he needs to doff his cap to the Lords on the bench.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I have made that point on this very forum many, many times, Ben. Wake up.

[molly bloom]

Man, I never thought I'd see the day that Bugs would sell out. Really? Sticking up for the nanny staters telling you what you can or can't say?

Oh what crap. Firstly, it's a story in the Daily Mail- only slightly more trustworthy and accurate than Fux News.

Secondly, what you can or can't say in the United States has frequently depended upon who you are, what you are saying, and to whom. The ultimate sanction for saying what some people don't want you to say, is of course death, and this has been applied at various stages in the history of the U.S. - in 1919, the Washington Post reported that when one member of a crowd shot a critic of a 'patriotic' pageant, the rest of the group cheered and clapped.

Similarly, in Indiana, a jury acquitted one man for the shooting death of another, whose 'crime' had been to say 'to hell with the United States'.
A slightly less radical sanction was applied to a clothing store salesman in Connecticut, whose egregious misbehaviour amounted to airing the opinion that Lenin was 'one of the brainiest men in the world'. He received a custodial sentence.

Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer authorized raids which involved the invasion of private homes and union meeting halls- without warrants- to arrest thousands of people whose crime amounted to being suspected of being radicals. Those arrested were held without bail, denied legal recourse, and in many cases were beaten after having been chained and marched through the streets.

Later in the century Emmett Till was lynched for, amongst other alleged provocations, saying: 'How about a date baby?' to a white woman.

Big Milam shined the light in Bobo's face, said: "You the ****** who did the talking?"

"Yeah," Bobo replied.

Milam: "Don't say, 'Yeah' to me: I'll blow your head off. Get your clothes on."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/till/sfeature/sf_look_confession.html

[Alexander's Horse]

I get called Australian all the time and it doesn't bother me at all

The thing that gets me is we are really quite an aggressive little country and people but everyone thinks we're harmless and funny, that works quite well for us

Australia btw now is the richest country on earth, on a net wealth per individual basis, that is personal wealth not national resources, I don't know how we did it but another example of the helpless old Aussies sneaking up on the world.

Australians go to great lengths to hide their wealth, boasting and ostentation are frowned upon. But there have been over 20 years of unbroken economic growth in the lucky country. We didn't suffer in the GFC, never went into recession. We have no national debt to speak of.

We also control one tenth of the earth's surface if you include our maritime zones with only 20 million or so people. We're keeping very quiet about that too as everyone has a good laugh at our expense. So laugh it up boys...

[Ben Kenobi]

So the best argument you have is that America sucks too? Wow. Never saw that coming from you Molly.

Speech codes are a bad thing, and I don't see why a writer who's in general opposed to incursions on free speech should suddenly turn around and start censoring other people's speech. Oh, I'm sorry, speech of people you don't like.

[giblets]

When someone asserts America is "the last nation with free speech" it's sensible to point out examples of how America also infringes on free speech.

[Ben Kenobi]

It also fails to address the argument that censorship is extremely corrosive. Saying "X is just as bad" is a terrible argument.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Of course the counter to that is those folks may be saying that extreme free speech isn't an ideal to be realized. That lines do indeed need to be drawn, as no right is completely unrestricted.

[giblets]

It's not clear if anyone in this thread is even in favor of "hate speech" laws so I fail to see what your point is.

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