Thailand, the safe paradise vs. the USA, a horrible crime riddled sewer

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Velociryx
That site is full of ****. According to that site, there are 20000 gun murders per annum in Thailand, giving it a gun murder rate of ~31 per 100000 per annum, yet the total murder rate is only listed as ~8 per 100000 per annum.



Ah Christ, KH....everybody knows that's because they don't count the "murder" of all the reanimated corpses killed by handguns over there...get with the program, will ya?!

-=Vel=-

It probably has something to do with slaves counting as 2/3 of a person or some such thing.

[Flubber]

AS an aside I would not trust that nationmaster site for anything. I too thought it looked to be a good compilation until I noticed they omitted both the United States and Venezuala from the top oil producing nations.

So while the site may perhaps be accurate for some things, I have no confidence whatsoever in it

[Arrian]

So, to recap, the argument is basically "don't bother with the statistics, trust me Thailand is safer because I've traveled there and it feels safer to me!"

Excellent basis for an argument. Really.

How many tourists seek out the crime-ridden ghetto?

-Arrian

p.s. I love the wallet anecdote. I dropped my wallet at a highway rest stop once (parking lot). It was mailed back to me, with all of its contents, by the nice American lady who found it. USA! USA! USA!

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Arrian
So, to recap, the argument is basically "don't bother with the statistics, trust me Thailand is safer because I've traveled there and it feels safer to me!"

You forgot the "The Daily Show" says its so, so it must be the truth arguement.

[Colonel_Treize]

@Arrian: My original argument was that Thailand is safer than the US, in my personal, first-hand experience. I provided many valid reasons for that, and you only talked about one of them. Besides, you didn't deny the idea that American culture has the philosophy, 'finder's keepers.' In fact, not only have I been there, but two of my best friends in FL have been there several times, over decades. My point is that my observation isn't something I just pulled out of my *ss to sound cool or something. I am intelligent and well-read. I know what I'm talking about, as well as anyone else in the US who has been there. Again, I invite you to find out for yourself and decide. Don't take my word for it. You be the judge. But, get on a plane and go there yourself before you call me out.

@Ogie: "The Daily Show" sacastically proved the point that the coup was blodless, period. Every news story said the same thing about the coup. That fact is not in dispute.

In the future, take some more time to critically evaluate what I say before trying to poke holes. Again, that is one of the major criticisms the international community has about the US, atm, which is our ignorance about foreign cultures, and our willingness to cling on to popular myths for our information. In addition, the fact that when presented with another point of view, you are unwilling to reason it out makes me think poorly of some of the Americans who posted here.

Yes, the statement I made is my opinion. But my opinion is an informed one, where Americans who haven't been to Thailand or vice versa have no basis to make an informed comparison.

[Arrian]

Besides, you didn't deny the idea that American culture has the philosophy, 'finder's keepers.'

Honestly, I reject the concept of a single American culture. I think we have many. It's a large country with all sorts of different people, regions, and whatnot. Do NYC and West Bumble****, OK have the same culture? Finder's Keepers certainly exists, but I'm puzzled by your (apparent) claim that because somebody returned a wallet in Thailand and you personally have had a good experience there that their culture is somehow better (vis a vis crime, anyway) than ours.

I've traveled to many places in the world. Not Thailand as yet, but then again, I wasn't the one making assertions. And I think Slowwhand's point is quite relevant: did you, when you traveled to Thailand, seek out the slums? Or did you stay in areas geared toward tourists? If that is the case, which is a reasonable guess, then I rather doubt you saw the "real" Thailand, vis a vis crime.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to consider it as having limited value because it is based upon an individual's (or, counting your Floridian friends, a few people's) first-hand experience, which I think isn't a very good way to judge an entire country, culture, etc.

I know perfectly well that there are dangerous places here in the USA, and that our crime rates are among the highest (probably the highest) in the developed world. I went to college in, and currently work in Hartford, CT, dude. CT has some of the worst inner cities in the nation. My individual experiences, however, do not make a particularly good basis for judging the USA as a whole. Nor do yours. This is why statistics matter.

In closing, I'm not "calling you out." I'm debating. Welcome to the OTF.

-Arrian

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize

@Ogie: "The Daily Show" sacastically proved the point that the coup was blodless, period. Every news story said the same thing about the coup. That fact is not in dispute.

I'm so sorry I thought you were serious. See we usually have this thing called dissection of sources. Its a little game we play here OT. To claim to use "the Daily Show" as a serious critique seems a bit naive.

But perhaps I'm not as smitten with Thailand. Maybe I'm not this guy. Are you?

I Have A Thing For Asia

By Nathanial Morgenstern
September 13, 2006 | Issue 42•37

Man, if I had to name one continent that really just does it for me, there's no question which one I'd pick: Asia. It just drives me wild. I know that a lot of my friends still don't get it, and I've gotten my share of glares from ex-girlfriends, but you know what? It's their loss. They're more than welcome to their Europes and North Americas. That just leaves more Asia for me.

It began in high school, when I was first exposed to different landforms. It was then that I realized my deep attraction to the remote, demure, but utterly entrancing continent of Asia. In college, I double-majored in geography and earth science, but only so I could get closer to Asia. Senior year, I had the privilege to study in Tokyo, and let me tell you—once you get a taste of the Asian continent, you can never go back. And I keep coming back for more, whether it's South Korea, Hong Kong, or Thailand.

Especially Thailand.

Sure, I've felt like an outsider more than once in my life. It seemed all my geography friends would talk about was the sultry and sometimes fiery terrain of Italy, or the ample coastlines of Brazil, or the pale blond wheat fields of Germany, or the cool, stark beauty of Norway's fjords. But I always found these to be rather vulgar and overdone, like they were thrusting themselves at me. You hear a lot about the openness of Eastern Europe, but I've never seen a map of it without the pockmarked, aging topography. No thanks. And North America? Forget it. My stomach turns just thinking about those shallow lakes and massive mountains.

Exotic and otherworldly, Asia always has me in its grip. Parts of it seem fragile and delicate, yet it's overwhelmingly powerful, lithe, and tender. The fine landscapes, deep, mysterious, yellow-tinted rivers you're never quite sure where they will lead, quiet, calm plateaus, smooth valleys that fold epicanthally into one another, pert peaks—it's all there. I could have explored every inch of that continent and there would always be another petite, fresh-looking valley around the corner. It was just too much. Even the youthful charms of Thailand are too tempting to pass up—wrong, yet so very right at the same time.

See, with Asia, you get a tantalizing mystery. Just when you think you've penetrated it, up out of nowhere comes a thick bamboo rain forest, or the Himalayas. When I look at Japan, I can't help but think, "Now that's a land mass." It's spare and tightly formed, but with just the right amount of curves. It's simply sublime.

Some people complain that with all the earthquake activity, Asia's too demanding, unpredictable, even shrewish at times. But I think that's nothing more than a stereotype at worst, a lovable quirk at best.

After years of travels, I'm now back home in my apartment near Chinatown, but already I'm longing for more, and I suspect it shows. My friends have called me on my tendency to e-mail them pictures of the light-brown soil of Laos and the small but perfectly formed hills in the southern edge of China, and my blog's hosting service forced me, after some complaints, to take down my latest post about reintroducing the pink dolphin into the Three Gorges region.

It's amazing how people take such personal offense with my passion. But, I cannot change. I like what I like.

My friend Mark, a fellow I met in Hanoi who's also into Asia, claims that he once navigated two Asian countries in the same night, but I'm not sure I believe him. I think he knew that was my ultimate fantasy and was just trying to get me riled up. He knows that I was too nervous in the countries I was visiting. But beyond that, I have too much respect for them to explore them through and through on the first trip, you know?

From that other credible news source The Onion

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Ohhh heres more to justify your top notch source.

Friday, September 22, 2006

Bloodless Thai Coup
Thailand went through a bloodless coup while the President was out in the United States to address the United Nations. What do you think?


Cindy Daniels,
Cashier
"I'm looking forward to seeing this on the political edition of While You Were Out."

Chad Brackmeyer,
Systems Analyst
"This is all in accordance with Thailand's 'Whoever sits in the President's chair is the President' policy."

Brian Knuth,
Medical Receptionist
"It's not the best solution to removing a corrupt leader, but it sure does the job better than the electoral college."

Heck now you got The Daily Show and The Onion giving two thumbs up.

[Colonel_Treize]

@Arrian: I'm glad to be talking to a fellow traveller. The Thai 'slums,' in the sense you are talking about are located in the outskirts of the outer provinces of the country. They generally don't have violent places in the urban areas of Thailand, like we do have violence in the urban areas of the US. Comparing a city like Bangkok to a city like Washington D.C., Bangkok is much safer. Indeed, this is an inductive argument as opposed to a deductive one. There is no way to deduce this question into a solid fact. But, as inductive arguments go, I would be more inclined to believe a person who actually lived in Bangkok and Washington D.C., as opposed to statistics. I respect your right to believe that my opinion has limited factual value, based on our different ways of analyzing data. As for OTF, this debate was transferred here by Ozzy, for obvious reasons. Ozzy was calling me out, not you. I still think the title of the thread encourages people to feel a certain way, and it says something about the thread's creator, Ozzy. As a fellow traveller, I invite you to join me on Nov 15. You might like it, for reasons other than the low crime rate.

@Ogie: Yeah, as I said to Arrian, this thread was moved to OT by Ozzy for good reasons. The post about "The Daily Show" was written there, then transferred here. Nathanial and I would be good friends, if we ever met. I can tell you that much. He's right about one thing: If you guys don't want to come with me, more Asia for the rest of us. In fact, I don't even know why I'm revealing how wonderful the place is, even for the whole family. I mean with the high currency exchange rate from the US dollar to the Thai Baht, you can get a lot for your money, once you get past the plane ticket. If you have a steady, fixed income from a business, you could live there like a king. However, most foreigners, or farang, are so overwhelmed by the place that they tend to spend too freely, paying more money than something is worth. The last thing I want is for folks like that to jack up the expectations, and therefore the prices, for the rest of us.

However, to make friends, if anyone wants any cheap DVDs or software over there, I'd be willing to pick it up for you, if you pay for the low cost and shipping. Any takers?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Actually I've been to Thailand. Beautiful country. I prefer Singapore simply because I can get around better being a monolingual dumb ****e Mericun and all.

[Caligastia]

Bangkok is a hole. That was my personal experience.

[Colonel_Treize]

Yeah, Bangkok itself is a poor example of many other things, most notably pollution. I've never been to a city like Detroit, but I'm sure that Bangkok's smog is far worse than any American city, because there are little or no regulations on chemicals and exhaust emissions. By the second day, I coudn't breathe outside without respatory protection in the form of a mask. They sell these masks all over the streets, and if you spend enough time outside without one, you'll soon lose your voice.

[Caligastia]

I also saw quite a few slums on the way back to the airport. Those people live in grinding poverty. Well, back in the 90s they did. I don't know if things are any better now or not.

[Colonel_Treize]

There are still areas where people live in grinding poverty in all parts of Thailand. But the 'slums' they have are not the 'mean streets' we have here in the US. Dirt poor Thai people are not as likely to resort to fighting or killing than their dirt poor American counterparts are, because of the difference in values. I don't know about Australia or Europe.

[Az]

@the onion. They overdid it with the pink dolphin, tho.