Massive Air Strike Has Begun

[Az]

that's why they used them and threw them away like a used condom?

[GePap]

So basically, the US, as a weak but proud state got into a row with the new revolutionary government of its ally, which demanded of it things it was unwilling to give... though eventually we made up, and it was against Britian that we would be at war with in a decade...

Hmmmm..perhaps there are lessons to be learned?

The Founding Fathers didn't like the French anymore than I do.

Well, thats not true of Franklyn or Jefferson. Must be a Hamiltonian.

[Drake Tungsten]

Franklin didn't like them and even Jefferson didn't trust them. I don't see why they would; Vergennes was a real piece of work. de Villepin reminds me a lot of him...

[The Mad Monk]

It should be noted that during the 'undeclared naval war', the United States didn't actually have a Navy. The XYZ Affair led directly to the establishment of the United States Navy.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Franklin didn't like them and even Jefferson didn't trust them. I don't see why they would; Vergennes was a real piece of work. de Villepin reminds me a lot of him...

I missed Franklyn's francophobia in his memoirs...

I think you forget that Vergennes probalby had lost his head by the time of this affair. Yes, we all know how much the founding fathers disliked the radicalism of the French revolutionary message.

So MM, another thing we have to thank the French for?

But enough of this unwarranted side issue.

[Master Zen]

Then if the US didn't have a navy, how did it fight an "undeclared quasi-naval war"? Ships ain't built in 48 hours...

It did have a navy, just not a major one though.

[Drake Tungsten]

I think you forget that Vergennes probalby had lost his head by the time of this affair.

No I didn't. The Founding Fathers were hostile to the French well before the XYZ affair occurred. The Founding Fathers were well aware of the cynical reasons the French had for supporting the US and had no love for them...

But enough of this unwarranted side issue.

[Ming]

Hmmm... I see the threadjackers have done it again.

Well... back on topic, or I'll just restrict the bunch of you.

Have nice day...

[Drake Tungsten]

In war news, CNN is reporting that the entire Iraqi 51st division has surrendered. Not a Republican Guard division, but still a good thing...

[The Mad Monk]

They're saying 8,000 troops, and they had 200 tanks before the war (no mention how many they have now).

[GePap]

So they can finally move into Basra..
Well, the reular Iraqi army is doing what everyone expected them to do.

I am still not shocked an awed by this air campaign: They are hitting several targets redundantly, and while I undertand why they do so, many of those are obvious targets, probalby long ago emptied by the Iraqis. I don;t think we will somehow cause so much demoralization among the populace that they will kick Saddam out of Baghdad.

[Drake Tungsten]

Maybe "shock and awe" was just disinformation...

[The Mad Monk]

I think you're underestimating the that could've been ME effect.

[faded glory]

Theres still 1 more Iraqi division in Basra. Although if the 51st is gone, it should be easier

[Master Zen]

I think the Iraquis won't fight too hard to defend open ground, perhaps they'll make a light stand in Basra and a major one in Baghdad. The war will get ugly if Baghdad is besieged from land.

My goddarn cable just got off the air (no CNN ) , perhaps a stray smart bomb ended up in Puebla, Mexico???

BTW, Ming, I see a lawsuit from panag coming your way (re: have a nice day)