Only in Europe...

[Roland]

Originally posted by TheStinger

I know they do agree, but its on issues such as Zimbabwe, however if they come up against a difficult one such as Iraq and they are hopelesley divided.

Iraq will be an interesting test. I do not deny that the CFSP is still in its infancy, but it has made substantial progress already. Being devided, that's the curse and blessing of federal or power dividing structures. If in the US Congress and President are divided over an issue it has pretty much the same effect - gridlock.

[rah]

Wag wag wag,
He has done nothing to disprove my claim.
IN FACT, if you use the percentages provided in the links HE provided and multiply them against the appropriate populations counts, he is proving my claim for me.
Instead he can do nothing but ask me to define country.
Which he knows that while their is almost universal acceptance of the concept leads to the normal circular definition in the dictionary. Country... a nation. Well, define nation, Nation.... a country.

Wag wag wag.
But I'll admit his stratagy was quite effective based on what is currently being discussed here. He must be an excellent lawyer. But he lost the original arguement and I appreciate that he took the time to prove it for me.

RAH
And it's great signature material.

[Roland]

I give it a 4 on the concession speech scale.

Btw you should use some sort of " or < to separate the quote in your sig.

I can now go to another claim of yours....

[MikeH]

Rah: That is one of the smuggest things I've seen in a long time.

Your figures only support the numbers of people going to the US, not the claim that more people in the world want to live in the US than anywhere else.

[rah]

Actually the smugness comes from the fact that he's reduced himself to arguing the definition of a country. Which for the life of me, doesn't really seem to have anything to do with what I will admit was an "unsubstantiated trolling boast", which he promptly posted links supporting my boast. TROLL SCORE.

I never said that more people in the world wanted to live in the US. (I did go back and check) Even though what I actually said was equally inane.

Come on, I was trying to use the fact that a lot of people want to be citizens of the US and might do what appears to be crazy things to accomplish it. Which would explain why women would marry criminals in jail (original topic of thread)
Everything else was just gravy.


Thanks, I'll modify the quote.

Rich

[MikeH]

Maybe but my argument is that the vast, vast majority of those immigrants aren't from other western developed countries.

There aren't hordes of English women trying to think of any possible way to become US citizens including marrying a death row inmate. The idea of it is ridiculous. Anyone that does is just a sad, lonely, nutter.

Some people might go to the US to work or marry an American and go to live there. A lot of Americans marry Brits or come to work here. I bet the levels are about the same each way and most of your immigrants are from poor less developed countries, the same as ours are.

[Roland]

Originally posted by rah
Sorry, I looked and found no source that gave a simple summary. But reading the sites that I did, it's not even close, the US is by far the leader. (and this only counted legal aliens) The estimates for illegal aliens were unbelievable. The world does vote with it's feet.

People do indeed vote with their feet. While US emigration data is notoriously sketchy, estimates show an annual emigration of roughly 30k to the UK and Germany each, for the 1980s at least. US emigration is on an upside trajectory according to the US census and INS.

http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/statistics/Est99.pdf

Comparing this with immigration from the UK gives averages of roughly 10k per year; Germany's not even in this top 20 list:

http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/statistics/IMM2000AR.pdf

Also if you look at the nrs there for "Europe" and subtract the eastern european countries, immigration from western europe as a whole to the US is a trickle. Maybe 50k at most.

The two data sets aren't fully comparable. But it again reveals the simple truth that people simply look for better lives. Not a US flag.

[rah]

Quite the bulldog you are If I need ever need a lawyer. You've obviously expended considerably more time than I checking references. Thank God I'm not paying your hourly rate.

What do these individual stats have to do with it? I claimed the world, not individual countries. (which you nicely posted to remind me) I'm sure there are exceptions, I didn't say there weren't. But I'm sure there are some English Women that want to be US citizens. Just like there are US women that want to be citizens elsewhere.

And I will admit that people simply look for a better life
whether it be the US or an EU country. But that wasn't part of my claim either.

Rich

[rah]

And MikeH, I agree with what you said 100%. I never questioned it.

There aren't of horde of women marrying convicts, just a few. Which we were discussing THEIR motivation.

[Roland]

I know.

But as I said my brain is severely underemployed today....

One full bin of paper. Couple dozen reorganized folders. This will take at least another day....

[Dauphin]

But that wasn't part of my claim either

It wasn't your claim, but the claim was used as a basis for a conclusion.

The conclusion will change if the basis is shown to be misleading.

Just a comment.

[rah]

No the conclusion was that it was posible motivation for a few wacko women to marry serial killers. (pure speculation)

[Roland]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
I'd be interested to see the per capita immigration figures for many countries. Also breakdowns per states EU and US...

There's a fresh eurostat press release detailing EU net immigration.

http://europa.eu.int/comm/eurostat/Public/datashop/print-product/EN?catalogue=Eurostat&product=3-07082002-EN-AP-EN&mode=download

In 2001 the UK was last of the 5 big member states though....

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Roland

In 2001 the UK was last of the 5 big member states though....

Wow, I never knew England was a "big member state". Congratulations fellows!

[Roland]

Big members.