European Hypocracy

[Kropotkin]

Hiding behind the idea that the cities where industrial targets is just another way of trying to escape guilt behind terms like "collateral damage". Civilians are targets in a total war. If that justifies it is a moral issue. I'm a sceptic.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Ned
Panag, You post illustrates why so many ratifiers are making it clear that if the target was a legitimate military target, any amout of "collateral damage" is acceptable. This kind of exception would seem to permit the target of Dresden. (One of the earlier posters had pointed out that the Germans had moved a lot of war industry into Dresden to "protect" it against bombing because, they thought incorrectly, the Allies would never bomb Dresden.

hi ,

here we go again , same old stuff , same old s...
marching down the avenue , ....

how does one define a military target , ....

a powerplant that gives electricity to a WMD plant , is it a valid target , ......even when it gives 95 % of its output to a town , ....

a plant where antibiotics are made , but that can be switched in no time for military use , ...
is that a valid target , ....

a plant where washing powder is made , but use under a national emergency as a gunpowder plant , ....


when you harbor a stay behind military unit in your house , even under pressure , is that a valid target , ....

what is a valid military target , ....

ones again , people shall judge other people , yet the judges shall not be people with military background's , ...

so they can not understand that when a unit is occupied in CQC or FIBUA , and the leader of that unit calls for artillery support , and because of that call , some shells fly over , and a civilian is killed , ...

have a nice day

[markusf]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
Hiding behind the idea that the cities where industrial targets is just another way of trying to escape guilt behind terms like "collateral damage". Civilians are targets in a total war. If that justifies it is a moral issue. I'm a sceptic.

I don't see how anyone can argue that. declassified documents show that the british weren't making a dent in germanys industrial production at the start of ww2 so they switched to carpet bombing of cities.

Several german bombs went off target in london and hit residential areas.. The british saw the panic it caused and then ordered the carpet bombing of cities as the only other alternitive was to give up all together. The USA complained but went along with the idea.

[Kropotkin]

Yeah, I read that one of the original ideas when they discovered that there was no chance in hell they could actually hit small targets they started to argue that they could break the spirit of the german workers by destroying their homes.

Of cource they couldn't admit that they didn't have a important role to play in the war (institutions always wants to maximise their budget).

It back-fired as the destruction of their homes did the opposite. Also the destruction of downtown areas meant that a lot of other jobs disappeared and they had to work for the war-machine. Germany was very late in turning their economy for total war.

[markusf]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

here we go again , same old stuff , same old s...
marching down the avenue , ....

how does one define a military target , ....

a powerplant that gives electricity to a WMD plant , is it a valid target , ......even when it gives 95 % of its output to a town , ....

a plant where antibiotics are made , but that can be switched in no time for military use , ...
is that a valid target , ....

a plant where washing powder is made , but use under a national emergency as a gunpowder plant , ....


when you harbor a stay behind military unit in your house , even under pressure , is that a valid target , ....

what is a valid military target , ....

ones again , people shall judge other people , yet the judges shall not be people with military background's , ...

so they can not understand that when a unit is occupied in CQC or FIBUA , and the leader of that unit calls for artillery support , and because of that call , some shells fly over , and a civilian is killed , ...

have a nice day

Oh come on, you know damn well the only people who would be called before a court like that, are people who could be charged in a court martial, or murder trail and found quilty. IF someone lines up 20 people and shoots them, chances are they would be brought before the court. There would be so much politics involved it would be unlikely anyone could be brought before the court unless they did something really bad, and they knew what they where doing was really bad.

[MarkG]

good troll chris

"may not be surrendered to, or otherwise transferred to, the custody of an international tribunal or any other entity or state without the express consent of the contributing nation."

so the afganistan goverment agreed not to hand over any british soldiers if they actually get them in the first place

nothing to do with whether these soldiers can be put in trial in the international court....

[Panag]

Originally posted by markusf


Oh come on, you know damn well the only people who would be called before a court like that, are people who could be charged in a court martial, or murder trail and found quilty. IF someone lines up 20 people and shoots them, chances are they would be brought before the court. There would be so much politics involved it would be unlikely anyone could be brought before the court unless they did something really bad, and they knew what they where doing was really bad.

hi ,

people have been brought to a court for less then the killing of a human , .... "damage to a house , estimated damage 6000 USD" , pilot of F-18 , ...

sentenced to 4 years in Ft leavenworth , ......

he dropped a 500 pound bomb on a house in the balkans , ....

so , this is a rare case , but still , where do you draw the line , ......

when you fire a modern day rifle , the bullet can go miles , .. , so you aim at a rooftop , and the bullet fly's over , and hits a house , or injures a person , without that the shooter wants it , ...

then what , ...

have a nice day

[Kropotkin]

So that's the real reason no one dares to attack the US, they would get sued their asses off.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
So that's the real reason no one dares to attack the US, they would get sued their asses off.

hi ,

, case of a US soldier on station in Paris , he gets in a fight , with some antiglobalist's , so he started a lawsuit , so did the US army , against the Frech state , reason ; they could not guarantee his safety , .....


2 years later , out of court settlement of nearly 400.000 USD , ....

that really put's the zap on it , ......



have a nice day

[Roland]

Ned, you've touring around with this constiturional jingoism for ages now:

"What makes America unique, however, is our constitution. There are very few countries in the world that are even remotely structured like the United States...."

So tell me. What is so unique about the US constitution ? How does it compare to the Grundgesetz, Austrian Bundesverfassung, EU primary law ? Put up or shut up. Or start a thread on it.

[ZoboZeWarrior]

Originally posted by panag
, case of a US soldier on station in Paris , he gets in a fight , with some antiglobalist's , so he started a lawsuit , so did the US army , against the Frech state , reason ; they could not guarantee his safety , .....

A US soldier in Paris ? What was going a US soldier in Paris ?
An american tourist okay ! But what was doing an american soldier in Paris ?

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Roland
So tell me. What is so unique about the US constitution ? How does it compare to the Grundgesetz, Austrian Bundesverfassung, EU primary law ? Put up or shut up. Or start a thread on it.

It's easier to pronounce.

[Roland]

"It's easier to pronounce."

Try "Bundes-Verfassungsgesetz von 1920 mit dem die Republik Österreich als Bundesstaat eingerichtet wird" and "Staatsgrundgesetz über die allgemeinen Rechte der Staatsbürger". And don't choke.

[Chris 62]

Say it...I doubt I could read it!

I can also say I haven't a clue on how the US constitution is different or the same from the unpronoucable stuff you mentioned.

It would be a guess, but I would think they are more similar then different.