The Altera Centauri collection has been brought up to date by Darsnan. It comprises every decent scenario he's been able to find anywhere on the web, going back over 20 years.
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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
Kid: Why should the welfare of the people be so intimately tied to the government?
Are you scared you can't/don't know how to fend for yourself? Do you need a nanny so badly? Do I? If so, that is news to me!
-=Vel=-
The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.
And if your barometer for the success of a style of government is the "welfare of the people" then what in the world makes you think a centrally planned economy (communist) is superior to our current system, given the miserable failures communist countries have turned out to be? What type of bizarro world are you living in?
Instead of employing workers at unproductive jobs just employ them in productive jobs and cut back the work week. You still have the same amount of man hours working productivily, and you still have the same output. As shortages are identified you move the work to where it is needed and increase the week apropriately.
And your clarification changes nothing - you're increasing the number of bodies to do the same work, which has a real world (i.e. that place that isn't described in books and modeled in spreadsheets ) impact on productivity. You're also grabbing bodies (the presently unemployed) with a particular set of skills that may or may not be relevant to the filler jobs you give them and assuming they'll be as productive as the bodies whose hours of work you'll be replacing. If you stop working from book theory and try running any form of large scale project or enterprise in the real world, you'll start to see how much of a disconnect some of your ideas have from reality.
Get off of the Microeconomics. This is Macro.
Micro and Macro are just convenient theories for dealing with abstracted issues. Have you ever heard that saying that "Among economists, the real world is most often a special case." I'm talking real enterprises and real operations in the real world, and when I'm running something, I don't give a flying **** what labels the comrade academicians use to describe whatever theories they have.
I'm talking about responsible govt. That's what we need to solve our problems.
And so we should all just trust in the party, and whatever the party does will be responsible. And if we question this, we're obviously counterrevolutionaries who need to be "reeducated," right?
Admittedly capitalist govts are not responsible. Communist is.
Name one.
Oh Nonsense.
Such an eloquent rebuttal. So I guess I should really go back to those scab laborer jobs because I couldn't have gotten any of the subsequent jobs I've gotten without knowing exactly what the employment and training plans of everyone I was potentially competing against were.
And I guess I never should have made a decision or taken a risk back when I was poor, because I couldn't have afforded a wrong decision.
Sorry, but your posts sound more and more like rationalizations and excuses for underperformance.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
Originally posted by Kidicious
Get off of the Microeconomics. This is Macro.
You've obviously never taken a graduate level macroeconomics course. Micro foundations are key to the models. Individual households maximize lifetime utility; firms maximize profits; the economy is competitive; and so on.
You know what it means, and we aren't going to get into another "the land was stolen" debate. We've gone through that one before and you know my position.
And you know mine. Regardless of the "land is stolen debate" which isn't directly relevant, I'm just making a comment on the concept of ownership. If the state owns all property, it has every right to taxes from "tenants." Just as if corporations own the means of production, they have every right to total influence over what happens to profits.
Isn't that what communism comes down to (in theory, not in practice)?
Not really. In theory, the state dissolves in a communist society. In practice, of course it doesn't work out that well.
How can we all be squatters when the state is run by people?
The state is only superficially run by the people. And it'd be pretty easy, depending on the specifics of ownership. Suppose you've got stock in a land corporation. Does that mean you're not a squatter if you occupy part of it without the consent of the corporation?
Doesn't that mean one group of people own the land and another "squats"?
Nope.
Provide a specific because it's not only not easy, it's non-existent.
Any non-worker owned business. By definition, wages aren't included in profits.
Huh? Introducing a strawman in response to a strawman I didn't bring up? We're debating communism in this thread, not anarchism.
Where did I defend communism? As far as I can tell, I have only criticized capitalism.
But would you really allow capitalists to co-exist with anarchism? Or would you find a reason to accuse the capitalist who doesn't want to sell out to the workers of stealing property and then just seize their assets?
No doubt you would murder strikers whenever you evil libertarians sieze power.
Then tell Kid because he refuses to understand that both parties "profit". Now, does capitalism prohibit a group of workers from buying out the investments of the owner and owning their own business? Nope... That too is capitalism...
I define capitalism to exclude worker-control of the means of production. So yes, it does.
How will a business expand if all the profit goes back to stockholders?
Well yes, I wasn't taking into account re-investment of profits (a decision to be taken by the workers of the business).
Most workers are self-absorbed morons with little or no concept of the overall business picture, and most really don't give a **** to know, as long as they get paid and you go through the motions of treating them decently.
That's why most "employee owned" companies hire real management to run things.
And yet economic democracy, in places like Italy and the Mondragon Cooperatives of the Spanish Basque country, is quite successful, despite the workers supposedly being morons.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
Originally posted by Ramo
And yet economic democracy, in places like Italy and the Mondragon Cooperatives of the Spanish Basque country, is quite successful, despite the workers supposedly being morons.
So Berlusconi and his ilk are a product of economic democracy? News to many, I'd expect.
And what exactly have those economic powerhouses of the Spanish Basque country brought us?
Try economic democracy someplace like Intel, or GM.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
The PM doesn't have to be a socialist for there to exist socialist businesses. Parts of Italy have a fairly decent co-op movement.
And what does it matter if there isn't a significant amount of socialist computer companies at the moment?
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
Originally posted by Kidicious
I'm usually debating alone. They usually agree with me, so probably don't bother repeating what I'm saying though. I know they disagree with me on things too, because sometimes they say so.
Worker controlled businesses are totally in line with capitalism. I know of several small scale businesses where workers gathered resources to own a small piece of a larger business . .. Many people were both worker and capitalist at the same time
Some of these succeeded . . . and some failed, just like any other business.
I live in Canada ands while there are many things I dislike about our variation of a welfare state, I do like that there ismore than a basic attempt to meet the needs of the citizens.
However, The Communist model has failed spectacularly everywhere it is tried ( even Cuba allows a large number of capitalists to invest in and run their industries. Capitalism has its flaws and thats the reason that unrestricted capitalism is NOT permitted without some government controls
You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
If you are going to tell people that they keep repeating what they are saying the least you can do is know what they are saying. You have not even read my posts in this thread. That is appearant. You have no idea what I'm saying so you have no idea if I'm repeating myself.
Well I DID read what you had to say and my conclusions were the same as a number of other readers/posters.
Lets clarify with a two very simple questions
In your system would it be permissible/accepted that some jobs such as doctor or CEO or airline pilot would be remunerated at a higher rate than others working other jobs such as dishwasher, janitorial and if so who would determine.
In your system could a worker earn additional income by choosing to work additional hours or by performing better and thereby earn performance bonuses or salary increases
You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
Originally posted by Ramo
The PM doesn't have to be a socialist for there to exist socialist businesses. Parts of Italy have a fairly decent co-op movement.
And what does it matter if there isn't a significant amount of socialist computer companies at the moment?
The PM is a capitalist billionaire conglomerate mogul type. Hardly the type that would occur as a result of "economic democracy"
"isn't a significant amount" meaning "none"
GM isn't a computer company, either. It is, however, a large conglomerate with a lot of internal competition for internal and external resources. Intel is an R&D heavy heavy enterprise that has long, relatively high-risk development cycles and a mixed bag of products. Neither of these are types of enterprises that lend themselves well to meddling by the peasantry. If you have a 50 person weaving and clothesmaking enterprise, that's and all lovey-dovey granola-esque, so you do your democrating thing there, but it's hardly much impact on the economy.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
Instead of employing workers at unproductive jobs just employ them in productive jobs and cut back the work week. You still have the same amount of man hours working productivily, and you still have the same output. As shortages are identified you move the work to where it is needed and increase the week apropriately.
This one was interesting. MTG has identified many productivity problems but even if that could be eliminated, there are still a number of problems.
Many of the unemployed don't have the skill sets to perform more difficult jobs so they could be " given" more basic work. Your choices are
1. pay them the same to work less with the result that the product or service costs more and is uncompetitive
2. Proportionally decrease salaries in line with the reduction in hours worked-- This would hurt their incomes.
THis suggestion only works if you have sufficient people that want to job-share and it does not hurt productivity too much. But the same concept works equally well in a capitalist system if there is both a supply and demand for part time workers.
You seem to think that workers are interchangeable and can go wherever needed, or that the state can figure that out. Interesting that even a resource rich state like the former Soviet UNion could never figure things out and avoid shortages of basic goods let alone of skilled personnell
You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
Kid makes some good points, I think that capitalism is, inescapably a form of theft. And it is a form of theft that is not long for this world, thankfully.
Well I DID read what you had to say and my conclusions were the same as a number of other readers/posters.
Lets clarify with a two very simple questions
In your system would it be permissible/accepted that some jobs such as doctor or CEO or airline pilot would be remunerated at a higher rate than others working other jobs such as dishwasher, janitorial and if so who would determine.
In your system could a worker earn additional income by choosing to work additional hours or by performing better and thereby earn performance bonuses or salary increases
There should be incentives for success in education and in work. Knowledgable and experienced workers are a benefit to society, and we need incentives to get benefits. Don't count on CEOs getting a raise though.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
) impact on productivity. You're also grabbing bodies (the presently unemployed) with a particular set of skills that may or may not be relevant to the filler jobs you give them and assuming they'll be as productive as the bodies whose hours of work you'll be replacing. If you stop working from book theory and try running any form of large scale project or enterprise in the real world, you'll start to see how much of a disconnect some of your ideas have from reality.
I'm talking real enterprises and real operations in the real world, and when I'm running something, I don't give a flying **** what labels the comrade academicians use to describe whatever theories they have.
and all lovey-dovey granola-esque, so you do your democrating thing there, but it's hardly much impact on the economy.
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