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  • Konquest02
    replied
    It could be a nice idea, but look at what the Privateers add to your attitude balance (+1 or +3 if you attack). This is almost meaningless compared to some other things you can do to improve the AI's attitude towards you...

    --Kon--

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  • TheArsenal
    replied
    I also agree implementation could be better, but for different reasons. Another civ should have a way of "knowing" the Privateer belongs to you before you take an attitude hit. Otherwise, you do not. Using the example of Spain and England above, a Spanish vessel would have to be positioned to "see" a Privateer emerge from one of England's cities. Or if (as Jaybe alluded to) Spain sunk an English Privateer, they would be able to determine nationality definitively from any survivors they would fish out the water (to interrogate, turn into galley slaves, kill at their leisure, or whatever).

    What (humor me, I am dreaming here) would be extremely cool is if you could hire foreign pirates to man (at some sort of very high cost, of course) your Privateers, and then throw in a random variable as to whether the pirates' nation of origin would take the attitude hit or even risk war, or the owner (your civ) of the Privateer would.

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  • Dominae
    replied
    The more I think about Arrian's example, the more I believe Privateers are implemented all wrong. If Spain is convinced that England is using Privateers, then you can bet other countries would learn about it pretty quickly (I'm no history buff, but this seems reasonable). These other countries may or may not care about what England is doing, which would be modeled in Civ3 with no change in Attitude. But clearly England's reputation would suffer, since all the other countries know that it is not above supporting "pirates" to unoficially do the dirty work. Reputation involves a lot more than keeping your word.


    Dominae

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  • TheArsenal
    replied
    The only thing I'm not big is is the penalty for using Privateers. If the whole point is that these units fly no colors, why should you take an attitude hit for using them?
    I too am surprised to learn about the Privateers. I had assumed utter anonymity. I will use them more cautiously in the future.

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  • alexman
    replied
    Why a rep hit? You get a rep hit when you break deals.
    The use of privateers does not cause war, so it doesn't break deals.

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  • Dominae
    replied
    Originally posted by alexman
    This is a bit off-topic from Bamspeedy's results, but I think the attitude change associated with the use of privateers is meant to represent the fact that other nations know that they were attacked by ships manned by your citizens, and suspect that you financed them. I actually like it.
    I like that explanation too. But it could be implemented a bit better. With Espionage missions, you do have a chance of succeeding without getting caught. There's even a chance another civ is blamed. With Privateers it is clear who is using them (to the AI), so their main use is in provoking the AI to declare war. I would like to use Privateers to hamper my "allies" behind their back, but this cannot be done without turning the allies into enemies.


    Dominae

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  • Konquest02
    replied
    Originally posted by Arrian
    Dominae,

    How did Spain feel about Francis Drake & other English Privateers during the 16th-17th centuries?

    They were NOT amused.

    -Arrian
    Thanks foir pointing that out Arrian, I forgot. Now that I see this, I think it is a good historical thing to have such a penalty.

    @Alexman: I agree Privateers are most of the time not worth it, but you have to agree that they can be a lot of fun... I use them mainly to protect my mainland from any surprise attacks from people I'm not at war with (yet... )

    --Kon--

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  • Dominae
    replied
    Originally posted by Arrian
    How did Spain feel about Francis Drake & other English Privateers during the 16th-17th centuries?

    They were NOT amused.
    But that's not what Privateers in Civ3 are supposed to be like. No one is supposed to know what nationality a given Privateer is (even the AI), other than the player using them. This means that you should not take either a Rep or a Attitutide hit when you use them.

    And, by your argument, you should take a Rep hit when using Privateers too, if Spain knows England is using Privateers. But this is not the case. Why the asymmetry?


    Dominae

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  • alexman
    replied
    This is a bit off-topic from Bamspeedy's results, but I think the attitude change associated with the use of privateers is meant to represent the fact that other nations know that they were attacked by ships manned by your citizens, and suspect that you financed them. I actually like it.

    Like failed espionage missions that come later, privateers are good for trying to provoke the AI into declaring war on you, without you taking an attitude hit from the whole world.

    Having said that, I do think that privateers are too expensive for their stats and abilities.

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  • Jaybe
    replied
    I hadn't noticed the Privateer hit. I totally agree with it however. Although it cannot be proven, it is highly suspected where they came from. It is too bad that there isn't a chance that someone ELSE takes the hit (you have successfully crewed it with foreigners or equipped it with components from elsewhere).

    I wonder if the higher hit is when the privateer gets sunk or when it sinks something!

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  • Arrian
    replied
    Dominae,

    How did Spain feel about Francis Drake & other English Privateers during the 16th-17th centuries?

    They were NOT amused.

    -Arrian

    Leave a comment:


  • minke19104
    replied
    I think it's to deter player to use Privateer shield, that is stack a privateer with a better defense/offense sea unit and let AI attack it.

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  • Dominae
    replied
    I still believe Privateers have no effect on Reputation, so at least they're not completely useless. Still, I see no reason why Attitude should be different in this case.


    Dominae

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  • Konquest02
    replied
    I totally agree with you Dom. Nobody should know these privateers are yours, so how the AI knows ?!?

    I mainly use privateers not to ruin my AI attitude. What's the point now...?

    --Kon--

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  • Dominae
    replied
    Yup, nice analysis by BamSpeedy.

    The only thing I'm not big is is the penalty for using Privateers. If the whole point is that these units fly no colors, why should you take an attitude hit for using them?


    Dominae

    Leave a comment:

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