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  • Jaybe
    replied
    Originally posted by Dida
    it take the USA 2 months to calm down and plan out the attack. The transportation part take less than a week.
    This is VERY important! The planning time has to be considered as part of the time it takes for the move, and is an issue that most 'strategic' game players (ala civvers) don't seem to appreciate.

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  • Ethelred
    replied
    I have used a ship chain once. I had one galley on each side of the ocean and I waited till I got one to survive in the middle. Then I chained a setter and spearman across to be the first on the large island/small continent.

    Even that felt like an exploit so I havn't tried it again.

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  • DenisV
    replied
    I think they should add new unit command "Load all units on" - when new ship in a chain starts moving.

    - or completely remove this practice from thea game.

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  • La Fayette
    replied
    dave
    sorry I didn't see your thread sooner.
    Shipchaining in civ3 is exactly the same as in civ2, but the command is slightly different:
    1) Ship A with units onboard sails on top of ship B (empty)
    2) You click and wake up all units
    3) You press 'L' and send every unit to the ship at the bottom of the list (you can check that the ship has movement left)
    4) You sail the ship (B) that has movement left (you can check that all units are onboard; if not, you can wake up all units and press 'L' again)

    Some more micromanagement: this is civ, my friends!

    (La Fayette, relaxing after transportation of 100 units along a chain of 12 ships, and dreaming about automation)

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  • Dida
    replied
    it take the USA 2 months to calm down and plan out the attack. The transportation part take less than a week.

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  • Sharkyy
    replied
    If the AI doesn't do this, at the very least it should be part of the game.... maybe a nice patch?.... this is the most realistic way to improve transport time in the game- whereas it takes up to 10 turns to transport units accross the world in CivIII, it took the U.S. about 2 months or so after September 11th, why not add that level of realism to the game?

    Not only that, but the strategic aspects of the change would be staggering. Navies would need to be larger and more diverse, you could win a war with reasonable naval tactics as opposed to something closer to blind luck in trying to find their convoys in the current system. Finding your opponent's troop-shipping lanes would be vital to winning an intercontinental war, and defense of your own lines would be nearly as important.... a great idea, i think.

    And if the AI does this now, how exactly would one be able to confirm that? In most games i've played, the AI hasn't been in the tech/econ/militarily hegemonic position necessary to attempt a long-range chain of transports and costly defense units.

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  • barefootbadass
    replied
    I tried this this afternoon to be able to move a force quickly across about 15 squares of ocean(one was a land square on a narrow island that I put a city on just so my ships could avoid going around). It works very well, using 11 caravels 3 units cross per turn.

    Anyway, there is a decent amount of micromanagement to it, but once you figure out where the units are in the queue, its always the same. Basically your ship arrives on trade-off square. And then you wake up the units in it and load them onto the bottom one on the list. Then that one moves on and the middle one moves back where the first one came from so you are ready to do it next turn. Two boats at each 'node' with the last node being next to your landing point, and one in the city they are embarking from.

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  • Blaupanzer
    replied
    Last unit to enter the square will be on top when the list is accessed immediately after that move in that same turn. Useful info in several situations, but not applicable beyond that period. Land/air units reorder when the next one moves anywhere. The two ships can be told apart that way.

    I've never seen any evidence that the AIs do any at-sea unit transfers.

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  • nickersonm
    replied
    Sounds like a Battletech Command Circut.

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  • Skanky Burns
    replied
    Im not so sure about the list ordering, in my experience that hasn't been the case, although I was testing with land-stacks.

    But regardless, one very easy way to never miss with ship-chaining would be to alternate the ship types. Have a caravel as the first link, then galleon, then caravel, then galleon, then....

    That way each ship wil have a different name.

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  • barefootbadass
    replied
    Originally posted by Unregistered
    Good point about the railroads v ship chain. I guess my test for exploitation is, does the ai do it? If not, then I tend to think of it as an exploit. Doesn't mean I won't sometimes do it.
    I haven't seen it do this, although it does tend to keep the seas busy shuffling units around with transport/ironclad combo, although the beauty of the chain is that your units can cross the sea and get off of the vulnerable transports without having to spend an ai turn in them.

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  • Unregistered
    replied
    I think the Marquis is right about the last ship moved being the first in the list. Hadn't noticed that before. Makes sense though, it does appear to be a stack implementation.

    Good point about the railroads v ship chain. I guess my test for exploitation is, does the ai do it? If not, then I tend to think of it as an exploit. Doesn't mean I won't sometimes do it.

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  • Worthingtons
    replied
    Hmm, Interesting discussion here, But people can move units half way the globe with Railways, I'll bet that the ship price involved at least equals the cost of a line of railway the same stretch.

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  • barefootbadass
    replied
    I thought about this the other day, but assumed it wasn't since it was such a well known 'feature' of civ 2. I wouldn't call it a exploit, you still have to have two ships for each 3-5(depending on ship movement) tiles you want to be able to move if you want to transport a full load of troops every turn. If you are using caravels to cross 21 squares from one of your coastal cities and land on the enemy continent in one turn, that's 7 caravels(I think) to get 3 across every other turn and 14 if you want them arriving every turn.

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  • Marquis de Sodaq
    replied
    DaveV, I've never missed when I ship chain. I've always chosen the second ship listed as the new one to load into. Either I've been very lucky, or the ship that already moved is always listed first.

    Yes, moving from a ship to a ship on another tile uses up the movement point of the unit. End of move.

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