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What is enough to prevent city defections?

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  • Surgeon
    replied
    Got warriors still around somewhere? got a city that could revolt? You now have a use for all those outdated units. A spearman is just as good at whacking dissedents as a tank and you wont care much if you lose them to a revolt.

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  • Romulus
    replied
    uH Clem, Excellent idea! I will start doing that with aquired cites if I suspect they are likely candidtes for defection.

    Osprey, WLTKD is "We Love the King Day". This is supposed to provide the city with a production bonus, and a reduction in waste (not corruption). The manual states that WLTKD is triggered when:
    Your city population is six or above and....
    There are no unhappy citizens in the city and....
    There must be at least as many happy citzens as content citizens
    I hope this helps.

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  • uh Clem
    replied
    Building Workers and/or Settlers in the captured city and then adding them back immediately will get rid of a few people of the AI nationality and replace them with your own. You don't necessarily need to do this with everybody in the city, but you can change the ratio of theirs to yours.

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  • Osprey
    replied
    I'm having a brain lockup right now. Please enlighten me on the meaning of WLTKD, I can't seem to think what it means. Thanks.
    Osprey

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  • Romulus
    replied
    I have found that the proximity of your capitol (or Forbidden City) in relation to the proximity of the opposing capitol plays a huge part in determining if a city will defect. In fact if I am planning to expand in a particular direction I will start building the Forbidden City or palace in a city very near the border I am expanding into (ahead of time). This way I will have a much better chance of retaining cities once they are captured. Often the palace/forbidden city build is lagging behind my offensive actions (can anyone say "impatient") In these cases I do exactly what quinalla stated previously (Garrison Troops=Population, rush-build next culture building as soon as resistance as ended, and get a road in there fast for luxuries, and finally prevent the city from going in to civil disorder at all costs! starvation...who cares?!)

    The approach mentioned above works well when you are planning the attack/offensive. Of course the AI will sometimes decide which way you will be expanding for you (when the attack you first). If you want to retain a city that you are taking in a counter attack, but have not even started the Palace/Forbidden City in a spot that will allow you to retain the city long term. You do have an option...Force the AI to move it's capitol to a better spot (for you). It seems that the when you destroy the AI's capitol it will move it to the city with the next highest population. With some careful planning this can allow you to "move" their capitol to a position much farther away from the city(s) you would like to retain (sometimes even off the continent!). This tactic can be time/turn consuming, (you may have to raze one or two cities first in order for the capitol to move to the location you want). But if executed properly you can safely gain 3-4 cities without having any defect back to the original owners.

    If anyone has had luck with other strategies, please let me know!

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  • quinalla
    replied
    Cities you have captured have a greater chance of defecting if they are closer to their original capital. What I do to keep them from defecting is bombard the crap out of the city until it is down to at least population 3, preferably 1 or 2. Once you take it, garrison an equal number of troops per resistor (I usually don't do more just in case they revolt). Then rush build a temple or something if possible. The sooner you can get it connceted to your capital by roads or harbors the better because the people will be happier because they benefit from your luxuries then. Also, if you take a big population city and you are still attacking their original civ, they will be mad about this, don't be afraid to starve them if you have to by making them all entertainers. If you can bombard then enough to get their population down, you should be able to hold onto the city, I haven't had one revert yet since I started.

    -quinalla

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  • ElitePersian
    replied
    I've had an original city defect. It was the stupidest thing you can imagine, here's what happened:

    i founded this city called Tarsus around 1500BC, the city defected to the Aztecs around 1900AD. At the time, the city was a size 25 city, producing a lotta culture each turn, it had all the improvements possible, plus a couple small wonders, it had above average culture. The closest Aztec city was about 35-40 tiles away! And at the time, the aztecs were getting conquered like mad by the americans and the english, they were down to like 5 cities. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason why my city should have defected, im pretty sure this is a bug in the game, there's no reason why that city would defect.

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  • Grim Legacy
    replied
    The AI places their cities badly anyway. To my great pleasure, in Civ3, I am now encouraged to raze them, whereas it was an under-the-table kind of thing in Civ2.

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  • Barchan
    replied
    I've never had an original city defect, either. But then again, I always build cultural stuff to keep 'em happy.

    I have had captured cities defect. Sometimes the message hints that it had to do with culture, sometimes it's just a straight tossing out of the governor. Either way, there seems to be a positive correlation between the number of unhappy citizens of the prior owner and the probability of defection. The more unhappy citizens, the more likely the defection.

    Also, Wonders aren't the answer. I've had cities with wonders in them defect several times. It seems the only things that work are reducing the population, building "happy face" generators, and increasing the luxury rate.

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  • MaSsConFUsi0n
    replied
    i've never lost one of my own cities to defection, i usually lose the enemy cities that i capture, so here's my solution: if you plan to take some enemy city, make a settler and some extra workers. as soon as you capture the city, raze it. then take your settler and build one of YOUR cities right on that spot and put those extra workers that you built in the city too, to increase the population quickly.

    after you raze an enemy city, take those workers that are created by the razing and send them to your other cities and add them to those cities. foreign workers don't like working for you, so you just relocate them. that's how i handle the ai cities most of the time. i only keep cities that have wonders in them, unless that wonder is worthless at that stage in time, since foreign wonders that you capture NEVER produce culture...

    MaSsConFUsi0n

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  • Dom Pedro II
    replied
    I have been fortunate enough to only have one city defect in my entire time playing. It was a small outpost in the middle of a superior civilization, and I knew it would defect eventually. Other than that, its never happened. I always thought it was because I was culturally superior. From what has been said here, it doesn't sound like that is completely true. Of course, I've never had far-flung civilizations spanning the whole globe, though I have had island outposts which have NEVER been absorbed.

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  • napalm010
    replied
    Dont forget if in a Republic or Democracy, military units have no positive effect on unhappy people when garrisoned in city. The rules for both goverments say that no units can be used as military police.

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  • Easy Rhino
    replied
    Things that help prevent defections. (partly memory from a Soren Johnson chat, partly experience from losing lots of cities).

    This does not cover resisting cities, which are I think a thousand times more difficult to hold on too.

    Anyway, here's a list, +'s help, -'s hurt.

    + culture of your city
    + culture of your nearby cities
    - culture of their nearby cities
    + your total culture
    - their total culture
    + progressive government (I think, maybe just for resistors)
    + road link to rest of your civ (don't know if they have to be roads on your territory or
    + garrisoned units (just a small help, though).
    + courthouse
    + WLTKD
    - disorder

    I also think there's a certain random probability chance per turn in certain cases, either that or a weird hidden cumulative effect.

    In my current game I've built three very isolated distant cities. They kept getting absorbed by the adjacent civs. But I'm a weenie, and will reload older saves to see if I can save them. Well, I've been able to hold onto them by rush-building all the cultural improvements I can as fast as possible. (size 5 city with university, go figure). Even then, one city was lost, but I found it was retained with a WLTKD.

    Finally, in the war I was conducting just the other night, I capture the Aztec capital. had a 20-ish population, most resisting. I garrisoned with 8 or so tanks. Went into disorder. Then, two turns later, is was culturally absorbed... BY THE IROQUOIS!

    ER

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  • Venger
    replied
    Originally posted by napalm010
    If it removes a citizen claiming the old civ nationality first, wouldn't creating/ drafting some units to reduce city size help? Thus making the percentage of citizens in that city that claim your civ's nationality much greater. Which i believe would decrease the chance of it reverting back to your enemy after u capture it.

    Just starting to play Civ3 but have been reading the boards for a while. Anyone know if this idea would work?
    That's intrepid thinking there! I think it's kind of a system exploitation - I'd just as soon they fix the defection model a bit. But until they do, it not only fixes it but produces units you can use against the AI! I will try this soon as I am beginning a conquest of the Aztec continent and give it a shot...

    Venger

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  • napalm010
    replied
    On the topis of defecting cities, i have a idea but need some backup info. Yes i have looked in the manual but didnt find anything. When a unit is created that reduces the cities population in a mixed civ city, does it remove a citizen that claims the old civ as nationality or your civ. If it removes a citizen claiming the old civ nationality first, wouldn't creating/ drafting some units to reduce city size help? Thus making the percentage of citizens in that city that claim your civ's nationality much greater. Which i believe would decrease the chance of it reverting back to your enemy after u capture it.

    Just starting to play Civ3 but have been reading the boards for a while. Anyone know if this idea would work?

    Leave a comment:

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