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AI opening embassy. Sizing me up?

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  • dexters
    replied
    Bongo, interesting test. Are you sure there wasn't anything that might have allowed the AI to see you?

    Subs, perhaps, a unit on a mountain that can see further than a local ironcal near the coast?

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  • bongo
    replied
    dexters , part true. Some parts of the AI 'knows stuff' and others don't. But that part controlling the units never experience fog of war. I found out by accident. I was being harrased by AI inronclads and were moving transports(or galloens?) along my coast to gather an invasion force. I tried to sneak one of them past an ironclad and moved so close that it was within reach but out of view (thinking the AI wouldn't know it was there, I was wrong) The ai went straight at it. I reloaded multiple times and placed my ship in several different places. The only time the AI didn't head straight at it was when it was out of reach. I repeated this test on other occasions and it is 100% reproducable. Present the AI with an easy target that is out of view but in reach and it will head for it.

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  • dexters
    replied
    Originally posted by bongo
    zorbop , the AI don't experience fog of war and it seems it got full map knowledge for some purposes but not for all. It cannot trade with other civ until it got map coverage of the route and it will not settle unknown areas.
    The AI doesn't have an integrated brain like we do. Parts of the software running the game maybe omniscient but that doesn't mean the AI is omiscient. The AI consists of several modules that can be limited in what it can see.

    There is certainly evidence that the AI will know where your weak border cities are, and where resources are, but there is no evidence it actively cheats.

    The backend may simply have been programmed to bring up a list of perspective cities to attack and the AI merely prioritizes the targets from their relative weakness. In that case, the AI doesn't know what exactly you are doing, it just knows they can attack a certain co-ordinate because the algorithm dictating the leader strategies somehow formulated a list.

    With resources, if you've watched a debug game, the AI leaders know where resources are, but city governors and workers don't see it, and thus, won't even hook a road to it. late game resources usualy go unroaded until the AI has the tech to see it. Unless of course, the resource happen to fall in a good tile that the AI would have improved anyways.

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  • Kuciwalker
    replied
    Originally posted by UnityScoutChopper
    Yes, they work both ways. I always consider it saved money when they open with me. :-)

    Must admit I haven't noticed higher aggressiveness in civs that found embassies with me.
    I've never noticed it at all, but then again I usually open up embassies first.

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  • GhengisFarb™
    replied
    I tend to let the AI pay to open them unless I need to get an idea of where their civ is located.

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  • Harovan
    replied
    In the first two ages I open embassies only if I need them for an alliance, a RoP agreement or seldom to spy out the capital before I attack. That's true for all map sizes and difficulty levels. Sometimes AIs open embassies with me during this period.

    Usually I open embassies with all civs in the industrial age, when I don't know what to do with all the cash anyway.

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  • bongo
    replied
    MrWhereItsAt , there seems to be a difference between continents and islands. From my experience, the AI will not land on islands until it get map-knowledge of it. If the continents are fully settled and you happens to discover an island, the AI will stay off it until you give them an updated map.

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  • GhengisFarb™
    replied
    True. But thats in the Human Player's favor not the AIs, the human feels however he feels.

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  • Cort Haus
    replied
    Opening embassies gives a positive attitude shift as do the RoPs that can be signed thereafter. AI's don't open them to spy - they know where all your units are anyway.

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  • MrWhereItsAt
    replied
    They do have an uncanny knack of landing on the one unsettled part of your continent when they do not even have your map though.... lucky buggers.

    As far as I'm concerned, as soon as you make contact with an offshore civ they know the lie of your land and where any unsettled areas are - perhaps even before you make contact! It;s just too much coincidence the first you see of them is them landing where you don;t want them.

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  • bongo
    replied
    zorbop , the AI don't experience fog of war and it seems it got full map knowledge for some purposes but not for all. It cannot trade with other civ until it got map coverage of the route and it will not settle unknown areas.

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  • GhengisFarb™
    replied
    Its possible that the timing of embassies is simply determined by an income to treasury ratio.

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  • zorbop
    replied
    Originally posted by bongo
    Forget about the AI using an embassy to spy on your cities! It doesn't need to. One of the few cheats the AI use is that it is not bothered by fog of war so it will see where your units are no matter what.
    really? i think that the AI has the ability to see the entire map, but still has fog for it. I do not think they have the ability to see cities or units they would otherwise not be able to... at least, that is what the prima strategy guide says (although it IS prima, they are often wrong)

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  • binyo66
    replied
    Originally posted by Konquest02


    More precisely, all of the diplomatic agreements tab: Right of Passage, Mutual Protection Pact and alliances against other civs.
    I am agree. When US Opened embassy on me, she wants some helps (trading luxury or mpp), so did GR. I just doesn't know why Aztec opened embassy.

    I have read someone investigating AI Attitude, how to get great leader etc, but it seems no one care about investigating embassy (and I am not good in playing civ3 and to do investigation).

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  • Arrian
    replied
    I always assumed that the AI eventually gets round to opening an embassy when it has the spare cash to do so.
    And since the AI is often flat broke in the early game, it takes them a little while.

    I typically pay to establish the embassies myself. IIRC, there is an attitude boost to having an embassy (I could be wrong on that one, though), and it lets me create alliances or RoPs if I feel the need. Plus I do get a snapshot of the AI's capitol. It's usually worth it to me.

    That's playing on Monarch, standard map, 8 civs, continents (so usually 2-4 neighbors). If I was playing on Emperor on a huge map with 16 civs, it would be different. I'd probably pick a couple to establish embassies with (probably closest neighbors) and ignore the rest, because I probably couldn't afford to pay for them all.

    -Arrian

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