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**Tuberski** · September 2, 2002, 19:32

I think she is just trying to get what she can from you.
Music Theory is a dead end tech, other than a wonder (Bach's?) it is useless.

Plus the rest of AI Civ probably already have it, so you researching it would be really quick.

**Theseus** · September 2, 2002, 20:22

Yeah, it's a throway tech.

The bigger problem is how to catch up. A screenshot or save would help.

In general, I'd try three things:

* Beg borrow or steal to parity in at least one branch of research, prefereably the "southern" line. Sacrifice everything to get ahead on JUST ONE TECH, and then shrewd trading should do a lot to catch up.

* Beat on a weakling, and extort.

* Use alliances to create a series of inter-AI wars; this will at least distract them from research.

Don;t worry too much about being behind; as Tube said, this lessens the cost of the techs you research yourself.

**Bangedup** · September 2, 2002, 22:31

Stop researching altogether. Shut down exenditure in science and build marketplaces and banks and just make lots of money. You can catch up pretty quickly by purchasing techs. In fact after I get Bronze working and horseriding I wont research tech until the industrial age. Instead I kick the crap out of the closest, biggest, most advanced civ and when he gives up he gives up his tech. Just got 8 techs off of Romans and I took his Great Library. I am doing this at Emperor level and I think this and the next higher level researching is a lost cause anyway because the AI can beat you hands down. Funny thing though is they never seem to have much money until the modern era.

**Alex** · September 3, 2002, 00:58

Originally posted by Bangedup
Funny thing though is they never seem to have much money until the modern era.

That would be because they are trading to each other constantly.

**sabrewolf** · September 3, 2002, 05:48

Originally posted by Theseus
The bigger problem is how to catch up. A screenshot or save would help.

it could take a while until i have time to play further

which part of the screenshot would you need? the map?

* Beg borrow or steal to parity in at least one branch of research, prefereably the "southern" line. Sacrifice everything to get ahead on JUST ONE TECH, and then shrewd trading should do a lot to catch up.

no chance! as i said in my first post, i'm more than half an era behind. i could maybe go for printing press and democracy and hope that nobody's got it, but that would mean researching a non-mandatory branch

* Beat on a weakling, and extort.

the weaklings were dead before i even met any civ.

* Use alliances to create a series of inter-AI wars; this will at least distract them from research.

the problem: there's only 2 big civs left: germany and russia (each approx. half of the continent), if one of them should win, he would be totally invincible!

Don;t worry too much about being behind; as Tube said, this lessens the cost of the techs you research yourself.

i knew it costs less to buy - but doesn't the researching take the same much time?

anyhow, thanks to everyone for you advice and tips

**Flight** · September 3, 2002, 09:10

the more civs know of a tech the cheaper it becomes to research OR buy

Also in a large war between 2 similar sized enemies the AI will rarely fight to extinction or even to overwhelming firepower before making peace and staying there for a while. Usually they just kill each other's units and take some crappy border towns before stopping. Then again if they stop too soon you wouldn't get much of an advantage...
Then there's how to get em riled up in the first place

**dunk** · September 3, 2002, 09:29

Originally posted by sabrewolf
i knew it costs less to buy - but doesn't the researching take the same much time?

No, it also takes less time to research. Be sure to set the tax rate to minimum amount of science required to get the tech in 4 turns (the minimum research rate). Check and change it if needed every turn. This will generate some extra cash for you.

**SpencerH** · September 3, 2002, 09:35

I've now played 3 games with 1.29. In the first two games I ended up way behind on tech. Despite my considerable efforts including using a leader to build the GL (which probably gave me at least 10 techs), I could not catch up to the AI who were trading amongst themselves but not with me. In the last game I focussed on science, turning the slider up to 50% rather than my normal 30-40% and traded early with the AI. As a result I was the tech leader or co-equal the entire game. The funny part was that the damn French got a GL, built the UN two turns before me and won the game despite my being way ahead on points (I would have won easily by spacerace)

**Galvatron** · September 3, 2002, 09:46

Re: strange offer

Originally posted by sabrewolf

lizzy offered me music theory for just 11 gold!!!
i've got a lot of offers by now, but this one is really strange.

is it a bribe? if so: why didn't she ask for an alliance or something else?

does anyone know, what this could mean?

Hmm perhaps she saw in which condition you are and therefore she wanted to help you a little or might be she is in love with you so use the advantage and get her civ over to your side

Well it's really something strange even as music theory is a dead end tech the AI never gives anything for more or less free to me. Perhaps they don't like me

. What did you do to them in order to get such a friendly behaviour? Is there a special trick?

**JohnM2433** · September 3, 2002, 17:02

If Elizabeth is about to complete J. S. Bach's Cathedral on her next turn, she should try to trade the tech to other civs for whatever she can get, since it will be worthless in a turn and she needn't worry about them building the Wonder. And we know how crafty Lizzy is...

Still, you'd think she might ask for more for it.

If the Cathedral is already built, the tech is useless. There was a bug that caused the AI to give a slight value to such techs, so maybe you're playing on an old patch. (It's supposed to be fixed as of 1.29.) If this is the case, the tech won't let you actually build or research anything, but you might be able to sell it to other AI civs for a similarly pitiful amount.

**sabrewolf** · September 3, 2002, 17:09

Originally posted by JohnM2433
If Elizabeth is about to complete J. S. Bach's Cathedral on her next turn, she should try to trade the tech to other civs for whatever she can get, since it will be worthless in a turn and she needn't worry about them building the Wonder. And we know how crafty Lizzy is...

Still, you'd think she might ask for more for it.

If the Cathedral is already built, the tech is useless. There was a bug that caused the AI to give a slight value to such techs, so maybe you're playing on an old patch. (It's supposed to be fixed as of 1.29.) If this is the case, the tech won't let you actually build or research anything, but you might be able to sell it to other AI civs for a similarly pitiful amount.

don't forget: every tech gives points for the power-chart... so everything tech is worth something - that's why i took it.

**JohnM2433** · September 3, 2002, 17:23

Oh, I thought only Future Technology impacts your score. Ordinary tech does too? At first that was what I assumed, given the AI's behaviour, but I took that not to be the case when I read that that behaviour was changed in a patch.

**sabrewolf** · September 3, 2002, 17:28

Originally posted by JohnM2433
Oh, I thought only Future Technology impacts your score. Ordinary tech does too? At first that was what I assumed, given the AI's behaviour, but I took that not to be the case when I read that that behaviour was changed in a patch.

no not, the score (you're right, future techs only) ... but the power-chart (amalgam of land area, population, military strength, techs and other) ...

**Gangerolf** · September 4, 2002, 09:19

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