Discussion on border agreement with ND

[DAVOUT]

I always wonder why women are fascinated by things impossible to get whereas they are completely indifferent to three times more of the exactly identical gems available in the south ...

[LzPrst]

We have to consider that the other nations are discussing the very same issue we are. The defence of a Sierra shiny city. Remember, we have no obstacles and can charge in easily while the enemy must come over the hills and mountains. It is closer to us than it is to them, and more defendable. We must build there ASAP.

ps. am i the only one who cant see the border map?

[ThePlagueRat]

If we do like you say, Señor Meneñdez... and settle for the northern spot ASAP, I think the ND expansion planners would look a little like this-->

And us: Mwuhahaaa...


If we don't... we miss that opportunity, but on the other hand
we can try to negotiate and make it a temporary demilitarized no-settlement zone. Like you say, we are closer... so we can block off the access with our units, when the no demilitarized no-settlement treaty goes out. (therefore, a temporary treaty)

We must try to make such a treaty, if we are not going to settle there yet.


These options depends on what El Dictatóre decides...
(looks like he is not planning to settle there yet, so we need this treaty)

[LzPrst]

again I must emphasize that even though ND might agree to such an agreement GoW probably wont.
IF they settle there they will road the mountains and be able to bring in troops like no problem. Also theyll be able to ride the open grasslands all the way down to #14. Who will protect it? #8? Theyll never get around to leaving the jungle. Madrid? Its a very long run.
Thats why we MUST have a city up north with fortified mountains, to slow the enemy down as much as possible!
Remember the weak link of the chain. If the north is weak, an amy can march along the coast towards Madrid!

Theres also the economic aspect. What if there are no more gems on the continent than those 4 we've spotted? If we had a monopoly on a luxury that would put us in a very nice position indeed.

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by LzPrst
Theres also the economic aspect. What if there are no more gems on the continent than those 4 we've spotted? If we had a monopoly on a luxury that would put us in a very nice position indeed.

Well, if the gems that we can see currently are the only gems on the continent and someone did manage to settle that northern area first, we would still have a practical monopoly on gems for trade purposes.

[Togas]

I agree that it is in our best interest to settle the valley north of Madrid, and we will be requesting this valley in the coming negotiations with Neu Dem. However, I am prepared to give up parts of this valley in order to ensure that they will not meddle with Cow Valley.

But as every day passes, I become more confident that we may not need a border agreement. Once we establish the silk city, we will have given reason to Neu Dem to not settle in our valley. They would not plant a city in the midst of our culture.

Once that city site is settled, our bargaining position increases greatly, and the only reason we'd have to give Neu Dem any part of the valley above Madrid is to encourage peace and to make a "Neu Dem wall" to our north that would require anyone attacking us first attack them.

Let's continue to discuss this issue.

--Togas

[Thud]

Okay, I would draw the blue line one square north of where it is.

On the other hand, I don't beleive that a border agreement is in our best interests. Still, if we do agree to one, I would rather not press our luck against the patience of ND. They think the same way about those mountains no doubt, and I don't want a war with them.

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by Togas
Once that city site is settled, our bargaining position increases greatly, and the only reason we'd have to give Neu Dem any part of the valley above Madrid is to encourage peace and to make a "Neu Dem wall" to our north that would require anyone attacking us first attack them.

How are we going to go about marking out the blue line as our border and then immediately settle beyond that and all without p*ssing them off?

[ThePlagueRat]

If it turns out that the nasty GoW really do settle there, then I think we shall forge an alliance with the ND and smack GoWs asses blue and yellow...
Then we will capture that city before ND does. It would also mean the complete annihilation of the GoW, or perhaps just a 1/2 number of cities reduction just to make them bleed really bad. If GoW tries to oppose us, I will eat their liver, and put their heads on the horns of El Torros de Pamplona.

- Ohmygod, now I almost felt like a GoW member... phew, good thing I'm here with you niceguys in Spain. I need a job in the Spanish army I guess?

[Togas]

Originally posted by ruby_maser
How are we going to go about marking out the blue line as our border and then immediately settle beyond that and all without p*ssing them off?

The map is for internal use only. We are not going to show that copy to them. We are going to request that our border be the yellow line and then negotations will commense once know where they want the border.

The blue line represents the most territory I would be willing to give them.

--Togas

[ThePlagueRat]

Originally posted by ruby_maser


How are we going to go about marking out the blue line as our border and then immediately settle beyond that and all without p*ssing them off?

Ruby... that's true, but I guess they will be kinda pissed if we settle there anyway. The Pharao will look like this--->
This site is very likely in the ND sphere of interest.


Togas, the blue line is our 'worst case' scenario then?

[LzPrst]

Sounds more like you need a place in a mental institution, or the priesthood as its also called

but seriously. it is vital that we build there.
a trade monopoly on gems we might we have, but one more civs' begging for our gems cant be bad for us.
and ND knows that for them its a bad spot for a city.

[ThePlagueRat]

It's not so bad for ND, if they have very little space to extend borders elsewhere. I dunno about that, but we have lots of such space. As well as for us, this site is critical for all our neighbours to seize when there is no unsettled areas to reach. (without boats)


We are in the position to prevent anyone from obtaining more lands than us( without boats)... Soon, our West coast border will be consolidated, and ND might try to grab the Eastern opportunity.(rather than down south) That's why I think they will be kinda pissed when they find one of our cities up there too. (Mwuhahaa) It's all about EXpansione Rapido.



BTW: (optional reading about MP gameplay)
Once in an early MP game I had some Babylonian bowmen, in which I threatened one niceguy to leave with his settler from my 'promised lands'.
He quickly replied: "Ok. Please, dont kill me! Its my first game." and I felt sooo bad... so damn bad. Later, I traded techs and luxes to him, and we became more and more friends.
Same culture, same enemies, it turned out to be a good game!

[Togas]

Since History Guy will not be available I need to have someone fill in for him tomorrow when we meet with Neu Dem to discuss our borders.

The meeting will be at Wednesday, February 5.th at 7 PM GMT (that is 3 PM in NYC), however, I am unclear what channel it will be on. I have PM'd History Guy to find out.

I need someone to serve as the unofficial ambassador to Neu Dem because I will be at the office during the negotiations and might have to suddenly leave the computer to tend to a work-related issue. I will otherwise take an active part in the negotiations.

Please PM me if you are interested.

Negotiation policy -- it is vitally important that we do not annoy Neu Dem at this meeting. We will likely be asking for more land than they want to give us, but we must act naive to that fact and act as though our proposal is absolutely reasonable, given how close the land is to our capital.

We do not want to argue or offend, we want to discuss and inform. If nothing can be worked out, we must try to keep matters very civil and friendly and thank them for speaking with us and keep open the possibility of future discussions and negotiations.

I will email to my "temporary ambassador" the .jpg that I plan to send ... I am sending a cut copy of the one Dejon posted that only shows the yellow line.

--Togas

[Hot Mustard]

New Map for the border negotiations with Neu Dem