Gathering Storm - correspondence & foreign affairs

[vondrack]

That's awesome!

Perhaps we could send both versions?

[Tiberius]

I'd like to have the second message sent and see the GS members' faces when reading it

PS How about sending the first one through the official channels and making the second one an open letter to GS and post it in the public forum for some fun? Who said that Lego doesn't have style?

[redstar1]

LOL, a public message like that might cause a bit of a stir

[vondrack]

Yeah... we would risk even more GS members leaving the team because of extensive "mud slinging" and "anti-GS conspiracies" - and the game might grind to a halt due to a total lack of GS players.

[ZargonX]

I vote for redstar's And I think redstar should look into joining the Monarchical Imperialists team over at MZO

[Kloreep]

I do like the idea of publishing the British one. Not sure if GS would like that though.

For the first and private message, however, I think we should be even more straightforward than in the proposed two above. Their forces have landed to attack GoW or ND; likely GoW. They know it, GoW knows it, we know it. So I'd take out the second paragraph and reword it like this:

Honourable Nation of Gathering Storm,

It has been brought to our attention that a strong force of your War Chicken in full arms just recently landed on the Eastern coast of Bob, roughly South of Yellowknife.

We are sorry to inform you that if an attack on the "homeland" cities of GoW and ND was to happen or become imminent, we would consider it an act threatening Legoland's long-term interests, and as such would cause our nations to enter the state of war with no further warning.

Respectfully,
The Senate of Legoland

Also, again, let's wait on sending this. We can still hope against hope GoW will deal with it themselves.

Also, perhaps we should add on a third paragraph saying we'd prefer to avoid war, and could if they did not attack. Snowball's chance in hell of stopping them, but worth an inclusion I think. Anyway, GG now

[lmtoops]

I think the majority have decided that the message needs to be sent on this turn. It is time to make our position official. GS already know that we are not on their side. We might as will make it official. We may be able to avoid a conflict, but lets anounce our position.

The message may also give GS a false sense of superiority. They may think that they have caught GoW/ND by surprise, which prompted us to set-in diplomaticly to prevent any attack. I'm making a bit of a strech, but...it could happen.

By all means, we need to keep our LEFs secret.

[Nimitz]

Originally posted by Tiberius
I'd like to have the second message sent and see the GS members' faces when reading it

PS How about sending the first one through the official channels and making the second one an open letter to GS and post it in the public forum for some fun? Who said that Lego doesn't have style?

I would too. LOL

[Tiberius]

We have to send the message now, in order to avoid an abrupt declaration of war and to have in place that one turn ahead warning.

I still prefer Vondrack's more. It looks to me more ... complete. Kloreep's one is good too, but if I had to choose, I'd pick the first one (but please, whatever we choose to send, insert in it something about cancelling the luxury trade!)

We could then make public the british one

[ZargonX]

I think the upside to Vondrack's is that he mentions it is because of the attack on the GoW "homeland." This makes it quite clear our reasons for "threatening." Though, I'm a wary of calling it "war." Perhaps we should just say that "substanitive action would be taken swiftly and without warning"?

[Tiberius]

No, call it what it is: war.

[vondrack]

I believe we should not avoid the word "war", because that actually saves us from explicitly mentioning the lux deal. A war automatically cancels all trades, so I would think we'd not have to mention that (though I will think of how to insert something that will make it even more obvious).

As for when to send it... I consider the possibility of GS withdrawing after we tell them we are not "tip-top" with their landing virtually zero. This message is not meant to make them withdraw, this message is meant to free our hands with respect to the lux deal we have with GS.

And considering that, we need to send it immediately (this turn), since the sooner our hands are not tied by the deal, the better.

[ZargonX]

True, re: lux deal and war.

[Sharpe]

Unofficial chat with Theseus and Cort_Haus of GS

Nimitz and I had a chat with Theseus and Cort_Haus of GS - thought we should try to see if there was any possibility of avoiding a war with GS over their northern invasion force:

Part 1 of chat:

Idle small talk up to now - nothing of importance...

[Theseus] So... now we are talking.
[Nimitz] yes I guess
[Cort_Haus] we're on tenterhooks...
[Theseus] I'm on the edge of my seat.
[Sharpe] yeah, the war seems to have reached a touchy point
[Theseus] Sidenote: It's amazing to me that team participation is down, just when things are as intense as they
are.
[Sharpe] To be honest Legoland is concerned about your invasion of GoW's territory
[Cort_Haus] It's been a good war so far for Lego ... less so for the participants
[Sharpe] home area taht is
[Theseus] well, we weren't just going to slug it out in the south.
[Sharpe] been rough on Lego too - though not in combat losses admittedly
[Cort_Haus] well it's not surprising that we weant to take the fight to the enemy.
[Theseus] Rough on Lego how?
[Sharpe] Lots of arguments
[Nimitz] yes true
[Theseus] Ah.
[Cort_Haus] ah (
[Theseus] Thankfully, that has never really been the case in GS... we get along very well (but we were to an
extent a pre-built team).
[Nimitz] we get along farly well but things
[Nimitz] that do not directly involve us can lead to arguement on what to do
[Cort_Haus] We er, kind of noticed that Lego didn't want us hitting GoW. We got this ultimatum you see, so we
launched our nukes at you. Sorry 'bout that. Should be there any moment!
[Theseus] (I started with that quote CH!!)
[Theseus] lol
[Sharpe] K, to get to the point - Lego has a defensive alliance with GoW - regarding any invasion of their home
territory - since neither you nor RP have attacked into their homeland until now - Legoland has remained
uninvolved
[Cort_Haus] ok, (ticks off joke on list)
[Nimitz] lol
[Sharpe] until now
[Theseus] We are not in GoW's homeland.
[Theseus] Although we are... close.
[Sharpe] Err, what about that force of yours outside of Yellowknife?
[Cort_Haus] yeah, we're just peering over the border
[Sharpe] 12 knights 4 pikes ?
[Theseus] Outside their territory.
[Nimitz] that is not our it seems
[Theseus] To be honest? We knew we needed to bring the situation on Bob to a head.
[Nimitz] *how
[Theseus] YK is still a level one city.
[Sharpe] level one?
[Nimitz] not expanded
[Theseus] Cultural expansion.
[Sharpe] oh yeah true
[Sharpe] We are concerned about it because if you did attack GoW's cities there , the treaty with GoW would
require us to help with their defense
[Theseus] Here's a biggie: We do not want to attack GoW.
[Theseus] But we had to get their, and your, attention.
[Nimitz] so why the troops
[Nimitz] ok
[Nimitz] you have but in the wrong way most likely
[Theseus] Before we go further, can we briefly discuss confidentiality?
[Sharpe] sure
[Theseus] I have not been in a diplo position before...
[Nimitz] ok
[Theseus] What is the commonly accepted set of mores in this regard?
[Theseus] (Gee, talking like a diplo )
[Sharpe] do you mean telling us something that you have discussed with another team or teams ?
[Theseus] More, hmmm, what is the confidentiality of this chat?
[Theseus] For the moment, it's confidential within Lego... what about later?
[Sharpe] We can keep it just between Lego and GS if you wish it
[Theseus] And what about in general? Is there an assumption that all such diplo chats are to be held in
strictecst confidence?
[Sharpe] depends on whether you ask it to be confidential or not
[Theseus] Hmmm... what is your current realtionship with Vox and ND?
[Nimitz] usually it stays between the teams
[Sharpe] Vox is a friend - especially since we saved them from extinction
[Sharpe] ND is ... a mystery at times
[Sharpe] why do you ask?
[Cort_Haus] You seem shocked that we'd show troops to GoW's homeland. You can't really blame us for wanting to
threaten the enemy where it hurts though - otherwise we just hang around in Spain soaking up 3-mover attacks
for ever.
[Sharpe] No, we aren't shocked
[Cort_Haus] So you've promised to help them defensively. Why?
[Theseus] Hang on a sec CH... re confidentiality:
[Nimitz] so you wouldn't destory them
[Theseus] I would like us all to agree that this chat will be held confidential at least between our two teams.
I leave it to you when to disclose within Lego. OK?
[Nimitz] you are a powerful nation
[Cort_Haus] So are you.
[Sharpe] All right
[Nimitz] ya but we are builders who don't like wars
[Cort_Haus] so you threaten us with war...
[Theseus] Nimitz? Confidentiality?
[Nimitz] sharpe has answered
[Theseus] OK, sorry, don't know the protocol.
[Nimitz] its usual team agreement
[Theseus] Bear with me for a sec while I lay out some key thoughts:
[Sharpe] K
[Theseus] * Look at the map of Bob; it's all about ND.
[Theseus] * RP is basically done, 'cept we have them on life support.
[Theseus] * We can face off against both ND and GoW in the south all day long. But 1) it's getting boring, and
2) it's non-productive.
[Theseus] * I know that last point is not your concern, and is in a way to your benefit... but understand, we
cannot allow the current state of affairs to continue.
[Nimitz] so what you going to destroy some of there cities in the north and then get them to invade you
[Theseus] * We are going to take out either ND or GoW...
[Theseus] Do you think we mean to do this with just 12 Knights and 4 Pikes?
[Sharpe] no we know you have additional forces
[Theseus] Wait a sec please... I was building up to something.
[Sharpe] k
[Cort_Haus] [drum roll]
[Theseus] * We see an opportunity, one that I had mentioned to vondrack.
[Theseus] We want to HIRE GoW.
[Theseus] BRB
[Theseus] I have asked vondrack in the past if this would be OK... and he was fine with it.
[Theseus] Soooooo... how does that match up to your desires / objectives for this chat?
[Sharpe] Hire GoW to do what ? Attack ND?
[Theseus] You betcha. And yes, we know that will require teh absence of RP from Bob.
[Sharpe] yeah, they have said that they want that
[Theseus] I think it is part of their contract with ND.
[Sharpe] we aren't so sure about that "contract" part ....
[Theseus] I think they actually want to do what they set out to do... be mercs.
[Theseus] Which is pretty cool, IMO.
[Sharpe] at first yes, but we haven't seen much sign of that - they do appear to be working together
[Nimitz] I prefer building
[Cort_Haus] what did you guys want to talk about, btw.We already knew you'd declare war on us if we attacked the
GoW homeland..
[Theseus] Tangent: BTW, when I am maximally paranoid, I assume that Lego's "building" is all a facade and you
are about to descend on us, and also that Beta's new tagline is about the PTWDG and all of our chickens are
about to die.
[Sharpe] no, we really are builders
[Nimitz] just wishing to maintain balance
[Sharpe] doesn't mean we don't have a good military though
[Cort_Haus] mais biensur!
[Theseus] Yeah, we noticed the power cahrt!
[Theseus] chart
[Nimitz] we don't you destroyed any more then GoW
[Sharpe] economically GS and Lego are fairly close
[Sharpe] in terms of equality
[Theseus] So, CH had a good question, what were your objectives for this chat?
[Sharpe] We would like to avoid war with GS if possible - so to figure out if there is a way for our defensive
pact with GoW NOT to be activated
[Theseus] Ah, ok.
[Nimitz] I almost never have goals for a chat but as this is sharpes I don't know
[Cort_Haus] Heh, join us all in smaking ND!
[Sharpe] some background - why do you think we are part of the alliance with GoW and ND
[Cort_Haus] ahem, smacking
[Theseus] Are you?
[Cort_Haus] Yes, it looked like that with the Ultimatum
[Theseus] But with ND too?
[Sharpe] hard to say , we do have a NAP with them
[Sharpe] not sure how much longer it has to go
[Sharpe] a) we realized that RP was doomed no matter what
[Theseus] Well, to answer, I'd say you want peace in general, a balance of power, and a build-off.
[Sharpe] yes that too re peace and balance
[Sharpe] and c) No one had a clue about what was going on in GoW and ND
[Theseus] what happened to b)?
[Sharpe] your answer was b)
[Theseus]
[Sharpe] you know the phrase "Keep your friends close and your rivals even closer?"
[Theseus] Let me cut to the chase: How do you feel about GoW (and Vox? and Lego?) having a good chunk of Bob?
[Theseus] Us too of course... and if we can, we would like to try to restore part of Spain.
[Sharpe] Hmmm
[Theseus] Yeah, that's a definite "Hmmm" moment.
[Sharpe] you are proposing a gangup on ND then?
[Nimitz] well umm I don't know what the team would say
[Theseus] I guess I'm proposing a balance of power sans ND.
[Sharpe] What does GoW say about this?
[Theseus] If anything, and my teammates might kill me for this... I'd like to see GoW STRONGER.
[Sharpe] If you don't mind me asking
[Nimitz] I don't think they would do this at all before any NAP with ND was ovver
[Sharpe] how long has this war been going on for anyway in turns?
[Theseus] @Nimitz: Yes, agreed, honor all deals.
[Theseus] @Sharpe: NO idea.
[Nimitz] that has been my policy
[Cort_Haus] But could you at least stay neutral?
[Nimitz] it would depend most likely
[Cort_Haus] depend?
[Nimitz] on what you came up with
[Cort_Haus] you've already been offered territory
[Nimitz] as in if GoW would agree
[Sharpe] no , we mean re diplomatic fallout
[Theseus] ??
[Cort_Haus] with who? GS, GoW, Vox?
[Nimitz] if both GoW and GS agree there would be none
[Sharpe] what Nimitz said , if we had proof that GoW was onboard with this, things would look a little different
[Theseus] I have floated this idea in front of MZ and Un0.
[Cort_Haus] if you help us dismantle ND, we'll hardly hold that against you
[Theseus] lol
[Nimitz] that I know
[Sharpe] question then : why has GoW asked us for help defending against your forces?
[Cort_Haus] to precipitate this conversation?
[Theseus] We needed both a carrot and a stick...
[Sharpe] I doubt it - GoW was quite firm in invoking the defense clause
[Nimitz] yes
[Cort_Haus] good they were nervous
[Theseus] If we can't make happen what we are discussing here, we needed to position ourselves for another
course.
[Nimitz] you most likely will not get them to agree by invading
[Theseus] But we would MUCH rather do this.
[Theseus] We have not yet invaded.
[Cort_Haus] Brinkmanship
[Nimitz] it alienates
[Theseus] BTW, I do NOT mean to come off overly aggressive... we are in a tough sot and doing a best we can.
[Cort_Haus] GoW and GS have been forcing each others hand to make not striking a deal wit heach other unpalatable
[Sharpe] hmm, well if you don't invade, Lego won't be forced to join the war... which will please us
[Nimitz] true
[Cort_Haus] So you'd rather we did a deal with GoW?
[Sharpe] if possible
[Cort_Haus] cool
[Nimitz] I think everyone would

[Sharpe]

Part 2 of chat:

[Theseus] Can I digress for a moment?
[Sharpe] k
[Theseus] What's up with Vox? Is it just Beta? Are they just re-building?
[Sharpe] they have 9 cities on Legos Minor
[Nimitz] and have more then Beta
[Theseus] We can see that... we have been waaaay impressed by the re-building.
[Nimitz] we are happy for them
[Sharpe] they seem to be concentrating on working the land - terrain there is rough - which is why we never
settled it - that and the hordes of barbs
[Nimitz] too true
[Sharpe] you think that they are building up a military again?
[Nimitz] barb barbs every where and not the time to spare
[Theseus] Barbs... they are weird in C3C.
[Theseus] @Sharpe: Only when I get really paranoid. Although they could be invited to take that isle from ND.
[Sharpe] Isle from ND?
[Sharpe] I don't think ND has an island
[Sharpe] GoW does though
[Theseus] Yeah, to the NW of Bob. Immortals don;t suck... we hae extra Iron.
[Sharpe] no that is GoW 's area
[Theseus] OH!! Sorry, you are right.
[Nimitz] old plans???
[Sharpe] besides, Vox's cities are still so small that their total production is less than even one of our major
cities
[Theseus] Well, they would be welcome to participate anyway... I wouldn;t mind tehm grabbing a juicy lux city,
to give them a stake in the end-game...
[Sharpe] what Lego is concerned about is what will do you if GoW says no , at least right now no to taking out
ND?
[Sharpe] admittedly they have said even to us that things are "open" after RP is gone
[Theseus] Fair point.
[Cort_Haus] You want to know our plan B as well?
[Theseus] Throw bananas?
[Nimitz] Yes why not
[Sharpe] I thought chicken would be first food mentioned here
[Cort_Haus] Well, it looks grim. World War....
[Theseus] Chicken is NOT FOOD.
[Theseus] We'll fight.
[Nimitz] why not I like sweet and sour chicken
[Sharpe] what we hope is that Lego and GS could perhaps come to an agreement to avoid any defense treaty being
triggered if possible
[Theseus] Heretic.
[Theseus] I hear ya, Sharpe.
[Nimitz] not in lego
[Theseus] Not sure what to do though...
[Sharpe] out of curiousity, do you find it curious that neither GoW or ND have tried to land on Stormia
[Theseus] They don;t have the troops.
[Cort_Haus] have you seen outr navy?
[Nimitz] you see if war happen in may trigger a bad serise of evennts for all
[Cort_Haus] yep
[Sharpe] you have 12 ships? , admittedly a lot , but about the same as GoW and ND combined
[Theseus] I hear ya, Nimitz.
[Sharpe] and they do have the troops btw
[Cort_Haus] So how come you made this serious comitment to defend GoW against GS? ...
[Theseus] I think we are all at our keyboards thinking "What the heck do I type next."
[Cort_Haus] ... a bit interventionist for builders isn't it - if you don't mind me saying.
[Sharpe] Because we don't want them to invade Stormia...
[Cort_Haus] really?
[Sharpe] yep, more balance thing
[Nimitz] yes
[Sharpe] that is why they haven't tried
[Nimitz] as I said balance
[Cort_Haus] YOu could have sent troops to defend Stormia if you didn't want GoW to invade us
[Sharpe] we would be willing , if we could reach Stormia easily
[Nimitz] but we don't want the opposite either
[Theseus] Cutting to the chase again: IF we can negotiate a deal with GoW, are you OK with a NEW balance: Lego,
GS, and GoW, with Vox and RP as supporting players?
[Nimitz] GoW falling
[Nimitz] as I said that is not up to us its up to the team
[Nimitz] we can't make desisions like that
[Theseus] Fari enough... is it something to be considered, and what are yout thoughts on the team's likley
thinking?
[Theseus] Fair
[Sharpe] Fair
[Theseus]
[Nimitz] I'd say 1/3, 1/3, 1/3
[Sharpe] yeah, Nimitz is right
[Theseus] That's all?
[Nimitz] neutral for and against
[Theseus] Also, would you want to fight, and would you want a piece of Bob?
[Sharpe] the key would be the neutral people on Lego
[Sharpe] that would depend on whether GoW was fully on board with this
[Nimitz] if we agreed most likely
[Theseus] Assume that we can get GoW on board.
[Theseus] (Not that we REMOTELY have)
[Sharpe] it would be a fair agreement re balance
[Theseus] Please guide us as to the communications that would be necessary for the concurrence of the rest of
Team Lego.
[Cort_Haus] so am I right that you called this chat to see if there was a way for us to avoid war?
[Sharpe] I think that GoW definitely wants resolution of the RP conflict before they will agree to anything
[Theseus] Not now, but however you feel appropriate .
[Sharpe] yes Cort_Haud
[Sharpe] Cort_Haus sorry
[Theseus] RP must leave Bob, that is clear.
[Cort_Haus] the RP conflict is resolvable, we think
[Sharpe] are you sure that GoW will accept RP only leaving Bob ?
[Nimitz] in other word for GoW it would mean they would get more land them all of our land on bob put together
[Theseus] ??
[Cort_Haus] it's not just about land for GoW, its about the war
[Nimitz] that would be there demand
[Cort_Haus] - ending it
[Sharpe] undoubtedly GoW would want a large chunk of Bob to agree to this
[Nimitz] yup
[Theseus] Yes, that is one of the key things that we can offer.
[Cort_Haus] with ND out of the way t hey can have a contigious chunk...
[Cort_Haus] .. that's better than a few buits the other side of ND
[Cort_Haus] bits
[Theseus] Yeah, I think none of us looks at GoW's territory and say "GREAT, just the empire I wanted to build!"
[Cort_Haus] - which they'll have to fight us interminably for under the staus quo.
[Theseus] BRB... 5 min.
[Sharpe] yeah, GoW is in a bad situation re future strategic resources
[Sharpe] oil rubber won't be likely showing up in their current territories
[Cort_Haus] so you can see we have something to offer them
[Sharpe] true
[Nimitz] ya but I still think they would demand the most land
[Cort_Haus] so there's hope for us all yet )
[Sharpe] as long as others have parts of Bob , even GoW controlling most of Bob would have defensive problems
[Nimitz] and you have to think about that
[Nimitz] the demand
[Cort_Haus] demand?
[Nimitz] of most the land
[Sharpe] what GoW would want in return for their support
[Sharpe] I think that is what Nimitz is saying
[Cort_Haus] OK...
[Nimitz] yup
[Cort_Haus] ... many turns ago, GoW/ND tried to take Spain ...
[Nimitz] and are doing so
[Cort_Haus] slowly
[Sharpe] I don't know about that - the crucial battle seems to be for Pamplona - if it falls RP is finished...
[Cort_Haus] if GoW have a contract to remove RP they've been held up by GS
[Cort_Haus] GS can deliver their contract
[Cort_Haus] RP in Spain would be finished. Not RP
[Sharpe] have you guys thought about a RPxodus?
[Cort_Haus] we musn't call it that...
[Sharpe] doesn't work as well as Voxodus...
[Sharpe] even at least temporarily?
[Cort_Haus] theseeus used to known as RPodus and he doesn't want it used in that way!
[Nimitz] so what you telling GoW right now???
[Cort_Haus] I think you heard most of it
[Sharpe] we have noticed that Theseus is in a room called #gow_cofa ...
[Cort_Haus] Talks proceed with them
[Cort_Haus] well how 'bout that
[Cort_Haus] Theseus has some rapport with some of their guys
[Nimitz] I have an electronic net
[Theseus] rpodos the IRC newbie did not know that you could tell who is in what room.
[Theseus] RPodus... absurd name.
[Nimitz] ah weaklings you don't know the power of the /command
[Sharpe] lol
[Cort_Haus] so, my friends - do you feel nearer to or further from war with GS?
[Sharpe] btw you guys aren't still insisting on "being caught up in tech" in your GoW discussions are you? they
weren't too pleased with that
[Nimitz] you actually gave it away
[Nimitz] theseus
[Theseus] How?
[Nimitz] '/whois
[Nimitz] and you were more active you appeared
[Nimitz] easy
[Theseus] So (and this doesn't matter 'cause it is all gonna come out anyway), the room should have been made
secret ASAP?
[Nimitz] as always
[Nimitz] I did so with this
[Theseus] Shades of RL.
[Cort_Haus] so where were we?
[Nimitz] what you telling GoW i bieve was last
[Theseus] May I suggest we've accomplished what we needed to here? You do not want to get drawn into a war on
Bob, and would like to see "a" balance of power maintained. We are pursuing such a path. GoW is the next step.
Yes?
[Cort_Haus] I dunno, I'm not in the room
[Sharpe] yeah
[Cort_Haus] ok, that's it then
[Sharpe] we should continue to talk - been too long between chats
[Sharpe] later I mean
[Sharpe] not have this long gap between chats
[Nimitz] we shall relay the chat to our team and see what they say
[Cort_Haus] how do you get the text out of this Java window?
[Nimitz] umm I don't know
[Sharpe] you have to save the chat don't you?
[Theseus] Agreed. More communication. Much more. I am going to
try to make Monday evening my personal chat night. We will
report back to you on our progress with GoW, and eagerly look
forward to the results of Lego's internal discussions.
[Nimitz] ok
[Sharpe] ok
[Cort_Haus] OK, we'll it's been great talking with you, it's good
to see we all agree that we don't want war )
[Nimitz] yes
[Theseus] I have kept a log of most of this chat, and can email
it to you if you'd like.
[Sharpe] no we can save it
[Nimitz] I've kept a log of all of it
[Sharpe] thanks for the offer though
[Theseus] Uh, gotta go. Good talk, REALLY good talk. Next, we
need to discuss techs.
[Theseus] See ya.
* Logging #LOL to 'logs\GS-Lego chat Nov 10 2003.GRNet'
[Nimitz] if we don't end up at war yes
[Sharpe] Bye!
[Nimitz] cya
[Cort_Haus] bye
[Theseus] That's a form of "See ya" too.
[Nimitz] I know
* Theseus has left #LOL
* Cort_Haus has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
Session Close: Mon Nov 10 21:32:35 2003