Lego Reborn?

[Tiberius]

Diplomacy and civics belong both to the same category: definitely a step forward, but not as good as I was hoping for.

I mean, in the civics screen there might be 10000 possible variations, but I end up using at most 10 all the time, if not less. However I am using these because they fit to what I am playing, so maybe for other play styles other combinations are better. A promising start, but I have a feeling it can be tweaked.

Diplomacy: oh well, what can you expect from a computer ? Maybe better than before, but a very limited range of options and possibilities.

[Tiberius]

Trade: they still haven't found the proper formula for trading. Sure, you receive some nice trade bonuses if you have open borders and invent some techs or choose certain civics options, but overall no one notices that there is trade in the game, I believe.

Everything goes down to: I don't have enough money, I have to build some markeplaces or banks. Nothing more, I fear.

I still can't build a trading powerhouse if I want to. Moreover I can stockpile tons of money because it doesn't help me. Sure, I can upgrade my units or buy some tech (assuming I need to), but nothing else.

Most people consider (and they are right!) that the civ2 style spy was overpowered. On the other hand, I could buy a city if I had enough money and that was the builder's real reward!

[ZargonX]

I don't like the new "great" wonders. They just don't feel like "great "anymore.

Agreed. I don't even consider them as something worth prioritizing right now in my plans. I build them if I happen to have some peacetime and the resources available. They are not "must-haves" anymore.

There are nice little things I noticed so far which are extremly cool: for example how the production or tech overflow from one build to another (no more micromanagement!). Good work!

LOVE that. No more shield management!

I still can't build a trading powerhouse if I want to. Moreover I can stockpile tons of money because it doesn't help me. Sure, I can upgrade my units or buy some tech (assuming I need to), but nothing else.

I've found that, if you aren't fighting wars, proper trade management and stockpiling of money sort of lets you fund "waves" of settlement. If you save up enough, you can build a cluster of new cities and run a defecit for a while, still keeping you science up, until the new cities are up and productive. But, yeah, other than that, not much use for piles of money...

[Tiberius]

Well, I was actually talking about the late game, when you can hardly set up "waves" of new settlements

I've just remembered another "don't feel great/don't care about anymore" candidate: the UUs. As of now I couldn't care less what UU a certain civ has.

[Tiberius]

I'd like to add just one more thing: despite all these shortcomings, I can't wait to go home and continue the game I started yesterday!

Damn it. There is no cure to the "one more turn" syndrome!

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
I'd like to add just one more thing: despite all these shortcomings, I can't wait to go home and continue the game I started yesterday!

Damn it. There is no cure to the "one more turn" syndrome!

ROFLMAO.

This was an awesome post to read after all those "this is not so great and that could have been a lot better" posts before.

I do not think I have ever heard Soren say that explicitely, but knowing him a bit now, I believe that a lot of changes (Great Wonders being less "great", UUs being less U etc.) were actually made in order to make the game more balanced (especially with MP in mind). It's easier and more doable to balance wonders that only give mediocre boni than wonders that are really "gamebreaking" or close to).

While a single wonder was usually enough to make you a powerhouse (in a certain sense) in Civ3, you usually need more of them or something else than them (sort of a "combo") to become real strong in CIV. This actually applies to many other aspects - things have to "click in" to produce a noticable effect.

Diplomacy has a pretty solid groundwork (the attitude mouseover breakdowns are very useful, I believe), but needs a lot of work. Diplomacy and spies are very likely to receive more attention in the future.

As for the civics... there really are combinations that work and others that don't. However, pretty much every single civic has its use and fits a purpose or playstyle. If you think it's not true, challenge Fried... he will be most happy to prove you wrong.

One thing I would like to stress - guys, if you encounter a bug or what you believe is stupid (of AI), if you have an idea how to improve this or that, or even if you have a plain complaint, make sure you post it in the forum. Soren is a great reader (a much better reader than writer ). Post your savegames, post screenshots - every single bit will help.

The game is deep. I mean, probably is. I myself am not sure yet. At least it looks very deep to me. Throughout the whole development, I haven't played it enough to consider myself a skilled player - so many different approaches to try... I mostly played MP games which were not exactly games allowing much on-the-fly analysis and study. But it has always shocked me how others (Fried and Aeson always come first to my mind...) were able to come up with new impressive strategies all the time.

I believe that the key to success in CIV is to set one's goal and work towards it. It's less about doing as well as possible in all aspects, grabbing as much as possible along the way, and more about having a good plan to pursue.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack
I do not think I have ever heard Soren say that explicitely, but knowing him a bit now, I believe that a lot of changes (Great Wonders being less "great", UUs being less U etc.) were actually made in order to make the game more balanced (especially with MP in mind). It's easier and more doable to balance wonders that only give mediocre boni than wonders that are really "gamebreaking" or close to).

Yeah, unfortunately I think you are right. Unfortunately for me, because I like playing single player. There is a lot of stuff you can do in single player but not in multiplayer. I like building cultural or economical powerhouses and flip cities or convert everyone to my religion and so on (this is why I liked buying cities in civ2). You can't do any of these in MP.

A lot of game elements, including the game speed and wonders, seem to be tweaked for MP and this is not good for us SP players