Operation: Glorious Plastic

[vondrack]

Aggiemowa: generally we are at this question on pamploma: Is it worth giving up number surprise to waer city down to 6
Zayxus: catapults could destroy walls and number
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: catapults will take A LONG time
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: I don't think it's worth it
Zayxus: or coould ND do it with muscets?
Aggiemowa: also they can shoot back
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: this attack is based on surprise
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: without surprise it is pointless
Aggiemowa: yes, but we're back to the time question again
Aggiemowa: . but like i said we only get stronger
Zayxus: how long last oour golden age
Aggiemowa: our 10 turns your I don't know
Zayxus: but GA should not matter
Aggiemowa: nope, but then again pamploma in Ga ight give oyu more gold(by the way the turn we take it, we gift it to you
Aggiemowa: one thing to remember, after we attack either the Gs stack or pamploma our illusion of weakness is gone and from then on we must press hard to win
Zayxus: first Pamplona has to be taken.
Aggiemowa: i agree, vox will do a seach for 166 gold
Aggiemowa: that will reduce the number sof riders by 2, but is worth it
Zayxus: gold of pamolona seems not to be the main argument to me
Aggiemowa: after it falls we ned to eliminate rp real quick to avoid flip
Zayxus: so GOW needs to survive as many Riders as possible, but against an 5.25 defense how?
Aggiemowa: let me estimate the attack,
Aggiemowa: i'm assuming 10 (3) defenders + how many catapultsa do you remember form the atack force
Zayxus: 5 catapults of RP, I am not sure
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: i estimate 30-40% victories against the first group of defenders
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: after the the defense is hit once, our odds increase to round 50-70%
Aggiemowa: here it goes then,
Zayxus: I estimate 1 lost for each defensive
Aggiemowa: first 10 attack and 7 lose and 3 win, 7left
Aggiemowa: next 7 atatck 3 win(i'm being conservative) 4 units left at about 1/4
Aggiemowa: next wave of 4 hit 3 win 1left
Aggiemowa: last unit attcks and wins totals......
Aggiemowa: 22 units in attack 11 riders loses 6 die
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: of course if they have more than 10...
Aggiemowa: well we have a margin of 8 units
Aggiemowa: how many could ND use
Zayxus: in 3 turns: 4 Ansars? the rest is south
Aggiemowa: thats ok then
Zayxus: pikes might move too
Aggiemowa: that give us a margin of 12 and if in three turns we have 4 more rides for a margin of 16
Aggiemowa: MZ thats why I want to see more and more units come out of pamploma
Aggiemowa: actually with barracks, if gs does atatck we can heal quickly
Aggiemowa: if we attack the Gs stack force first, then our force could heal and the asnars from the south could come north too
Zayxus: yes, but only the surviving could be healed, some could get lost.
Aggiemowa: yes indeed
Aggiemowa: thats the problem, with engaging the Gs stack
Zayxus: the Ansars will move, when the Ansars are healed where they are now
Aggiemowa: of course another option is we keep 18 riders at alamo there and send 12 riders toward the coastal area
Aggiemowa: bypassing pamploma
Zayxus: north of it ...
Aggiemowa: yes
Zayxus: nice idea
Aggiemowa: by way of that mountain 2ne of pamploma
Aggiemowa: we could do this next turn
Aggiemowa: no the one to be played but next turn in 300
Aggiemowa: 18 riders fortifiede in a 100% bonus can hold off the GS/RP forces
Aggiemowa: it would take apporx 35 units to take alamo with 18 riders in it
Zayxus: ...and revealing the troops
Aggiemowa: once again thats the problem
Aggiemowa: but from the time they are revealed it is 2 turns to the coast and toldedo and GS can't get back in time i think
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: has anyone thought that Alamo might flip?
Zayxus: ... there is a road to Madrid: 6 tiles/turn
Zayxus: yes offen
Zayxus: often
Aggiemowa: not with all the trops in it
Aggiemowa: but without them it is very possible
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: are you sure? I don't know the flip calculations...
Aggiemowa: well here it is
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: don't worry, if you say so I trust you
Aggiemowa: (number citizens+number of tiles-troops)/500(since capital is so close)
Aggiemowa: there are other factros like *2 in disorder and ratio of cultures , etc, but this is the base
Aggiemowa: so the 18 troops make it a small number
Aggiemowa: actually in this case it is o i think
Zayxus: it should be negative
Aggiemowa: right and so we are good
Aggiemowa: i saw that number in some thread(yes i do occasionlly lurk in the strat forum)
Zayxus: 2+3-18?
Aggiemowa: yap
Aggiemowa: negativeas aren't allow so it goes to 0
Aggiemowa: the bottom numner varies from 500 to 5000 depending on the capital distance, in the middle it is 2000
Zayxus: now there are 5 MI ready to attack Alamo.
Aggiemowa: with panmploma right there it is 500
Aggiemowa: yes, but the 5/5 elite is 4/5
Zayxus: to keep Alamo aginst flipp: 2+3 Riders,
Zayxus: against MI also
Aggiemowa: yap enemey troops don't effect the equation just your own and tiles in enemy teritory
Aggiemowa: with the mi at 4/4 they willwin 1or 2 out of the 5 atatcks but with catapults they could be shut out
Zayxus: by all this it might be possible to get Pamplona.
Zayxus: and keep Alamo
Zayxus: but if GS attacks the?
Zayxus: then
Zayxus: Alamo is abandoned?
Aggiemowa: my suggestion is this, if the force in Alamo is under 10, it will be razed
Aggiemowa: we destroy roads, by the time they even get close to crossing we've destroyed RP
Zayxus: what if GS moves west further?
vondrack: --good, save sent to GS
Aggiemowa: that brings us to merida
Aggiemowa: excellent
Aggiemowa: we can always use the extra planning time
Aggiemowa: I don't see how it can be held form a determined attack
Zayxus: do not see it either - against 12 Knights
Aggiemowa: but it is possible, if they ake and extra turn. How many defesnive units could you put there
Zayxus: the stack at Alamo and from Essigbar
Zayxus: at most
Zayxus: plus walls
Aggiemowa: well if we could make them atatck it, against fortified forces 3 have a 4.5 defense(with river)
Aggiemowa: with wals they ahve 6
Aggiemowa: if they did atatck a defesnive force there, we could swopp down of them
Aggiemowa: afterwards
Aggiemowa: my instinct is that they are going toward alamo
Zayxus: hope so
Aggiemowa: well if they don't rp want have much to atatck with, since we can hit them every turn
Zayxus: Merida defense: 4 * 6 plus other
Zayxus: Ansars at Merida: defense : 8 * 4
Aggiemowa: if they send the knights toward alamo, you can handle the MI
Zayxus: yes
Aggiemowa: actually you could let the MI get right next to it and wipe them out
Aggiemowa: oh just loking merida doesn't have awall, i though it did
Aggiemowa: also note we have 2pike at alamo for the record
Zayxus: ND would rush the walls
Aggiemowa: ok
Zayxus: ND cant take Merida, when GS is near.
Aggiemowa: nope
Aggiemowa: thats why I offerd it this turn, since this turn they aren't near
Aggiemowa: but if they aren't when you open turn just don;'t accept and it is your next turn
Zayxus: now, correct
vondrack: --well, I am feeling somewhat sleepy today - so I will head to bed now...
vondrack: good luck to you
Aggiemowa: goodnight
Zayxus: bye
vondrack: 'night!
Session Close: Thu Oct 02 22:17:42 2003

[Tiberius]

MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: btw, isn't there a bug in PTW where the walls still count in cities over size 6?
Zayxus: before using catapults?
Aggiemowa: humm i didn't know about that
Zayxus: me either
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: I think there was, i don't know if it has been corrected though
Aggiemowa: if so it might as well be on a hill.
MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: Trip might know, I'll ask him later

This bug was eliminated in 1.27f

[vondrack]

A PM from Aggie:

We are still working on a fix for the PTWDG game. The problem is that we have an rop with ND, but they don't have one with us. Instead they have 2 peace treaties listed. We could probably work around this problem and still win, however I want the war to end in reasonable amount of time.

Since due to RP moves this turn Pamploma will fall in the next 3 turns(depends how RP reacts to the destruction of the stack on the forest), it is important that we have this bug worked out. We intend to gift Pamploma to Nd, but they can't get troops there if no rop(we will rush a road,workers are in position). Additionally if we don't have a ROP, ND is forced to defend Merida with 12ansars+spear/pike. With ROP, 6 more pikes get there and the ansars can counter attack(effectively destroying their southern offensive force).

Just wanted you to know why we are holding the game up and see if you have any ideas about the problem. Trip is working on editing the file but needs gramphos's help to do so. We have tried different orders etc and all that makes no difference in not being able to offer ROP.

On the game front, as mentioned above, RP moved a large force of Pikes/1mi/4Catapults onto the forest near Pamploma and strengthened their forces on the mountain north of Alamo. We intend to strike that stack(on the forest) and if enough riders are healthy we will either attack Pamploma(that would take GCA like luck) or will fortify on the forest(most likely) with the captured catapults. If not we will gather the forces in alamo and finish the job next turn or the following turn(when all wounded forces from this atatck will be healed). If rp gifts all their cities to rush troops back we will almost certainly wait till turn after next to attack Pamploma.

On the ND front, we gifted merida to them. They moved 14 2 defense units to Merida. With 10 GS knights nearby the ROP is very important. I am not sure if GS will attack Merida when they see the units there, it is possible that they will try to move to save Pamploma, but such a move by them would be very danagerous to them and they are too good of players to take such a risk(especially since they will know our numbers are large due to the destruction of the stack and the units outside Pamploma). Obviously they also know that ND has a large ansar stack, so they will be able to calculate that 40+, 4attack units are in front of them.

Sorry for the length, just wanted to be thorough. Also I will be gone on vacation next week, but will leave detailed instructions for whoever plays the turn to carry out.

Best Wishes
Aggie

[vondrack]

The regular Thursday evening Alliance chat (sorry, completely unedited this time - I still have some other stuff to do today):

Session Start: Thu Oct 23 20:02:49 2003
Session Ident: #gow_cofa
* Now talking in #gow_cofa
* redstar1 has joined #gow_cofa
* Zayxus has joined #gow_cofa
Zayxus: hi, now I found you
vondrack: hi!
vondrack: this room or another?
redstar1: hey
vondrack: redstar1 is from Lego, too
Zayxus: only here
vondrack: cool
vondrack: I was not sure if I recalled the room name correctly
Zayxus: check 'gow', it is empty
vondrack: ok, let's wait for Aggie then
Zayxus: Question: I would like to start this kind of chat one hour later next times, because I would like to do something before the chat on thursday, what do you think?
vondrack: not a big deal for me, I can do it at 8 or at 9 - your choice
Zayxus: 9 of europe would be nice for me. Then I would have to ask Aggie , too.
vondrack: hmmm... Aggie seems to be online...
vondrack: his bulb is on
* vondrack sets mode: +oo redstar1 Zayxus
Zayxus: I just wrote a PM to him to invite him
vondrack: cool
* Aggiemowa has joined #gow_cofa
Aggiemowa: hi there, sorry i'm late
Zayxus: welcome
Zayxus: Aggie, Question: I would like to start this kind of chat one hour later next times, because I would like to do something before the chat on thursday, what do you think?
vondrack: hi, Aggie!
Aggiemowa: perfect with me
* vondrack sets mode: +o Aggiemowa
Aggiemowa: hi there vondrack
vondrack: do we expect anyone else? may I lock the door?
Aggiemowa: sure
Zayxus: so it is for all here ?
* Retrieving #gow_cofa info...
Aggiemowa: i think so
Zayxus: me too
Aggiemowa: i'll email all just in case though
* vondrack sets mode: +k alliedchitchat
vondrack: k, not sure what's on the agenda today... so perhaps I'd start?
Aggiemowa: sound reasonable
vondrack: right
Zayxus: please
vondrack: Aggie - be so kind and send wines on your next turn
vondrack: nothing major, but we get one or two extra shields in the celebrating cities
vondrack: now for the question of the day:
Aggiemowa: will do
vondrack: guys, how are you doing in the war?
vondrack: or, more precisely
vondrack: what are your thoughts on our military presence (and its extent) on Bob?
Aggiemowa: it seems to be sufficient right now. Iwould object to saw 15 units total but what you have now is sufficient
Aggiemowa: i mean i wouldn't object
vondrack: 'f course
vondrack: Zayxus? same feelings?
Zayxus: amount seems to be enough in the north
vondrack: unless you feel the need for more troops right now, we would slow down a bit now
vondrack: assembling some force on Legos
Aggiemowa: fair enough
vondrack: once we have some knights for our home defenses, we might send more overseas
vondrack: it goes without saying
vondrack: that if the situation demands it, reinforcements will be dispatched immediately
vondrack: we now have a sufficient transport capacity
Aggiemowa: i think it is pretty clear that GS has made a decision to limit the war to the south. Probably due to a fear of you intervening
vondrack: and several of our high shield cities (though not all of them) keep pumping out troops
vondrack: yeah
vondrack: speaking of this
Zayxus: up to now it seems so.
vondrack: I should tell tell you that RPers approached us once again
vondrack: for the last time, I would say
Aggiemowa: probably
vondrack: I was forced to not deny being allied to GoW
vondrack: I did not confirm that, nor denied it
vondrack: but I plain refused to help RPers
vondrack: with the full support of the whole Lego team
vondrack: (I was acting as the FAM on behalf of our team)
vondrack: Arnelos pretty much got the message, I'd say
vondrack: he now knows we have gunpowder
vondrack: he now knows we are not giving it to them
vondrack: he might have noticed that I actually gave him a hint
vondrack: that gunpowder will not help them
vondrack: but maybe not... not sure
vondrack: one thing that may be worth mentioning
vondrack: he was, all the time, speaking about Lego being allied to GoW
vondrack: not a word about ND
vondrack: perhaps he still has no idea about the extent of this alliance
vondrack: and I also do not believe he knows a tiniest bit about our knights on Bob
vondrack: that's pretty much all from my side
Zayxus: don't know why RP did'nt see the troops of Ansars on GOW-territory?
Aggiemowa: that is a mystery
Aggiemowa: here is something top secret
Aggiemowa: it came in a pm so I can't give details(furum rules), but gs has approached us about betraying ND
Aggiemowa: they said give a price and they would try to pay
vondrack: hmmm... that's interesting
vondrack: they still don't get it, I guess
vondrack: so... what is the price, Aggie?
Aggiemowa: well unortho emailed them back a vague answer of we have to consider, but we are committed to driving rp off bob.
Aggiemowa: like they said they don't understand the depth of the alliance
redstar1: seems they don't want to be a vassal state
redstar1: not much roleplay in that
Aggiemowa: nope
vondrack: yeah, it's obvious their own definition of "honour" prevents them from seeing clearly
vondrack: no offense meant to them
Zayxus: Aggie, what might GS have seen of ND being involved having attacked that stack of GS about 5 turns ago?
Aggiemowa: i don't know, but i am under the impression that they thought it was mostly nd
Aggiemowa: i am eager to see the save, to see if gs attack merida or tries to go north to save pamploma
vondrack: they are holding it for quite some time again
Aggiemowa: inded they are
Aggiemowa: brb
Aggiemowa: sorry i'm back
vondrack: no prob
Zayxus: got no mail of GS yet
vondrack: btw - it (GS' PM) seems to indicate they may be losing hope in their military victory
Aggiemowa: it seems so, I assume they can estimate our producion and know we still have 7 turns of GA
* Darekill has joined #gow_cofa
vondrack: hello, Darekill!
Darekill: hi
Aggiemowa: hit there and welcome back darekill
* Aggiemowa sets mode: +o Darekill
vondrack: on a different topic - do you, guys, research anything at all?
Aggiemowa: not yet, but i was planning on starting in 340/350 depending on some things
vondrack: having a particular tech in mind?
vondrack: we are still not decided what our next tech should be
Aggiemowa: probaly begin moving toward military tradition
vondrack: chemistry, I take it?
Aggiemowa: yap then metalugy and cannons
vondrack: I guess that would be no problem with us
vondrack: we could stay in the upper part of the tech tree
Aggiemowa: that should work, what are nd'plans
Zayxus: ND seems to be on 'printing press'.
Darekill: we are on pp aren't we?
vondrack: how many turns to completion?
Zayxus: yes, slowly, but we did.
vondrack: 40 turn research?
Darekill: 27 i guess
vondrack: you might wish to talk to Voxes
vondrack: they are farther with their PP research
vondrack: might want to trade
Zayxus: many turns left, as I remenber, I had only few turns until now to watch it
vondrack: they are doing it in 40 as well
vondrack: but started earlier
Darekill: wouldn't hurt us we have a single scientist
Zayxus: true
vondrack: up to you... just wanted to keep you up to date
Darekill: thanks
vondrack: so... anything else to talk about today?
Aggiemowa: just an updtae of the forest battle neat pamploma
vondrack: k
Zayxus: ...
Aggiemowa: we lost 5 riders and destroyed 8pike and 1mi. RP claims to have counterattacked and retook the catapults seized
Aggiemowa: we had a stack of 8riders so if they did they had to have taken significant loses and on their"screenshot they showed a pike was the last victorious unit
Aggiemowa: if they were using pike for offesne they are truly desperate
vondrack: heh... I do not want to directly tell you what Arnelos told me regarding the battle, but I think I can quote him this far: "Aggie is right to taunt us."
Darekill: g
Darekill: sounds good!
Darekill: I hope that Medina and Essigbar are still in our hands.
Darekill: Medina did I say Medina?
Aggiemowa: my personal theory is that an elite generated a gl and they had no choice
Aggiemowa: merida
Darekill: I meant Merida .
vondrack: might be - he did not mention anything about any GL, though
Aggiemowa: merida should still be safe there were more units than gs had to atatck with there
Zayxus: But they have not enough attackers, there is no chance to get Merida this turn.
vondrack: if it's not too much hassle for you, drop us a brief note when you get the save
vondrack: to keep us updated
Zayxus: yes
Aggiemowa: i am eager to see it too, maybe gs's offer was becasue the lost at merida
vondrack: thanks
vondrack: btw - when did the PM come?
vondrack: it may also be because of Lego more or less admitting being "with the other side"
vondrack: I talked with Arnelos two days ago
Aggiemowa: yesterday morning
Darekill: would fit...
vondrack: that could be it as well
vondrack: plus - they got the save only yesterday noon
Darekill: At least I doubt that GS attacked Merida.
Aggiemowa: thats true.
Darekill: After all the hussel about the ROP-Bug they can imagin we have enough Pikes in Merida now to defend it
Aggiemowa: i was wondering about that. I wqas glad it was fixed
vondrack: do they imagine that only or is it true? )
Darekill: It is not exactly true
Darekill: We have four? Pikes there but eight BASF
vondrack: aha...
vondrack: BASF are not the best defenders, are they?
Darekill: No they are to busy recording their songs
vondrack: LoL
Darekill: But the four Pikes will be enough to disencourage the GS i think.
Darekill: after all Merida is up a hill.
Aggiemowa: i suspect they won't attack, the consequences of a loss are too high
Darekill: sorry Merida is not on a hill I remembered that wrong it is Essigbar that is on a hill not Merida.
Zayxus: Essigbar is like a castle.
vondrack: right... anything else? if not, I would get back to my RL business (still some stuff to do this evening)
Aggiemowa: i am done
Darekill: I'm a newbie I do know nothing anymore
vondrack: )
vondrack: ok, then, see you in a week - at nine?
Darekill: maybe
vondrack: I mean - an hour later than usually?
vondrack: Zayxus wanted to shift the chat an hour later...
Darekill: I'm still not completely the master of my time.
vondrack: hehe... I have never been the master of my time...
Zayxus: I'm lookingforward the save. If it is not here this night, than tommorrow in 18 hours
vondrack: my time seems to have his own life...
Darekill: Since my house burned I have so many other things to do but Zayxus will be here I guess.
vondrack: ugh - did not know that
vondrack: sorry for that
Darekill: Well it was the reason I was away
Darekill: now I'm back and thing are getting done but it takes time.
vondrack: I can imagine that...
vondrack: wish you good luck with getting your things organized again
Darekill: at least no one of my family was hurt it was only the building and the things in it partly...
Aggiemowa: sorry to hear that darekill
vondrack: what was the cause?
Darekill: I can swear it was someone from RP or GS!
Darekill: Just a joke
vondrack: LoL
Darekill: my daughter burned a candle in the room next to her'S unatendet it did set the fire
Darekill: when she realised it it was almost to late.
vondrack: ah
Aggiemowa: luckily you and your are oka nd that's what matters
Darekill: the only good thing is that I'm good insured and they pay.
vondrack: glad to hear that
Darekill: otherwise i gues i wouldn't be here....
Darekill: ok. enough of that.
Zayxus: Please, I remember I would like to come one hour later next week.
vondrack: ok - see you all in a week (one hour later than today)
Darekill: bye
Zayxus: that is fine.
Zayxus: bye
vondrack: bye
* Darekill has left #gow_cofa
Session Close: Thu Oct 23 21:32:21 2003

[vondrack]

A very brief email from Zayxus (ND):

Hi,

there is to report:
nothing happened with Merida. The troops of GS disappeared, perhaps they are gone to the north. Only two Knights of
GS are at Essigbar.

Zayxus

[vondrack]

A PM from Aggie:

Thanks for the Iron.

The forest battle actually ended up worst than I hoped.
They were able to get all eight riders and only use their offensive units from pamploma+all units from the mountain. I was disapponted in the lack of retreats, but that happens. Total loses for the forest battles(after nd defeated remaining forces on mountain, and some attacks last turn) were 13 Riders for us and 13pike,5MI at least(loses from within Pamploma unknown) for RP.

This turn(operating on the theory that I want them to attack out from Pamploma) us and ND put a total of 5 pikes+2ansars+2riders next to Pamploma.

A screenshot shows that RP now has
2(4/4)pike
2(3/3)pike
1/4knight
1/5Knight
3/5 MI
2/4 Horse.
8Catapults

We have 18 Riders+2ansar(at least) to attack Pamploma this turn and based on the above numbers victory seems likely(of course we have all had bad rng).

I can't help but be thankful that RP moved these forces out of Pamploma, if they had stayed we would have had no way to take Pamploma in the short term.

Patrick

[vondrack]

Another quick PM from Aggie:

Well unfortunately the pamploma attack will have to be postponed. Gs moved those 12 knights into range of Alamo(on a mountain). Also they moved 4 knights nextdoor to Pamploma. If we attacked we could win, but would almost certainly lose quite a few units that were weakened to a GS counterattack. Maybe even alamo could be counterattacked. As I mentioned earlier, this was the one move that could prevent the attack. Also RP gifted Toledo and New Madrid so more forces are now present. On the bright side it is clear that GS is reacting to us and not the other way around.

The good news is that to rush these knights into position they have left 3pike/quite a few MI/4workers alone in the desert. I just saw this so haven't told my team yet, but I suspect we can attack these forces and still keep sufficient force in the Alamo to protect that city.
Also its clear that RP posses no real offensive threat, so we can simply come back to them when we have dealt with this GS force. Or perhaps we can return to the original plan of take the coastal cities.
See you in chat
Patrick

[vondrack]

There was virtually nothing of interest in the chat yesterday, just ND & GoW planning military moves. There was a possibility of engaging a GS slowmover stack in the desert...

Today, mixed news from Aggie:

I have been thinking of the recent comments by opd and Theseus.

They imply that an attack on GOW is coming. Theseus said they were about to open a can of Whoop Ass on somebody and OPD said how many cities were we willing to lose to beat RP. My interpretation is that we are about to face an immediate attack probably coming from the SE(because the ne is covered).

I am not sure of this but am increasing recon in some areas. Of course it could all be a bluff. If it should happen we will probably need a chat to coordinate action. I think it is important that Lego prepare how to officially react to such an invasion.

What exactly is the triggering mechanism for the military intervention of your forces. I mean should I send an rop if spot GS forces this turn or does the military part of the alliance kick in only when a city is threatened. I hope that this can stay a secret alliance and this is just paranoia on my part, but the above comments make me think we need some more detailed planning. I do respect GS and they have some players that Ive worked with before(as SMC in the 1st demogame), and I know they are excellent players. To be honest an invasion of GOW is exactly what I would have done(though I would have started that right off the bat).

It is possible that a general warning from Lego is all that it will take to avoid war. But it also possible that GS suspects an Allinace and has made a decision to invade regardless of reaction. It is also possible these words are just threats to get us to make peace.

Also I am glad to report that we destroyed a GS stack of 3Pike/5MI/4workers with only 1 rider casualty(of course the 1 rider was ghengis).

Best wishes,
Patrick

So... the battle in the desert went very well. GoW decimated the GS stack losing just a single rider (they will most probably lose another one to the GS counterattack). But Aggie suspects something may be brewing...

Perhaps we should dispatch LEF4, just to be safe?

[ZargonX]

Hmm... could just be GS blustering, but perhaps we should at least get LEF4 onto a ship. Perhaps move it to a midway point to serve as both a scout ship and still be ready to drop off the forces in 1-turn. Nice news about the stack destruction, though.

[Kloreep]

Yes, we probably should send LEF4.

[lmtoops]

Send it

[vondrack]

And before I go to bed, the chatlog:

Session Start: Thu Nov 06 22:12:25 2003
Session Ident: #gow_cofa
* Now talking in #gow_cofa
vondrack: hi, folks
Zayxus: of cause, I meant for catapults: MI are the danger; GS has 5 Pikemen in range, which could stand at the hill
Aggiemowa: welcome
vondrack: sorry for being so late
vondrack: too many things to finish here
Zayxus: hello, welcome
vondrack: just working on our "stern warning" message for GS
vondrack: it will be sent along with the save
Aggiemowa: that alright
Aggiemowa: good
Zayxus: GS will be informed?
vondrack: they will be informed about that we will declare war on them if they move towards any of your cities
Zayxus: yes, the time has come for this
vondrack: Aggie, anything we did not address in our chat on Tuesday?
Zayxus: we just diskussed, what to do, if GS stays on the mountains
Aggiemowa: nope
vondrack: k
vondrack: Zayxus - will you send RoP?
vondrack: we will need it to move our units faster
vondrack: we are moving mostly through your territory, not GoW's
vondrack: brb
Zayxus: ROP for Lego : sure
vondrack: back
vondrack: ok, thanks
Zayxus: ROP for Lego : noticed
Zayxus: would it be worth to attack 5 pikes of GS on a hill next turn?
vondrack: mhm... not sure if you know this (I have just opened the save, finally): GS gifted The Voice and Harry's Hideout to RP
Zayxus: my idea was: GS gifted units to RP by this.
Aggiemowa: i saw 2 cities are those them or are those new
vondrack: RP now has four cities on Bob and 2 on Stormia
vondrack: does not really look like the usual catapult gifting trick
Aggiemowa: ok thats the same, they must have given toledo and new madrid back to rp
vondrack: if it was that, one city would be enough
vondrack: yep
Aggiemowa: also the gs forces are probably further south
Aggiemowa: new madrid and toledo weere done to move units to pamploma i susepct though
Zayxus: which GS forces ?
vondrack: yes, I thought so (re: Madrid & Toledo)
Aggiemowa: well i suspect their catapults though I have no idea for sure
Aggiemowa: i doubt GS would give more units to rp, rp is hanging by a thread
* Aggiemowa sets mode: +o vondrack
Zayxus: gifting gities moves only one's own units right?
Aggiemowa: yes
Aggiemowa: so they got reinforcements to pamploma
Zayxus: so why got RP cities near GS?
Zayxus: (The Voice, ...)
Aggiemowa: well part of the deal gs is offering us considt of moving rp to estonia
vondrack: =part of the payment for stabbing ND in their back?
Aggiemowa: yes
vondrack: cool
Aggiemowa: i think the troops near us is"encouragement"
vondrack: ah
vondrack: so we will try to encourage them to move their encouragement away
Aggiemowa: exactly
Aggiemowa: all in the name of peace
vondrack: oh, certainly
Aggiemowa: we told them our deal was for rp to leave and they said"how many cities would you be willing to lose to accomplish this
Aggiemowa: then they landed
Zayxus: GS seems to see it is in a strong position
Aggiemowa: they do, i wonder how the letter will affect them
Aggiemowa: of course its always possibvle there ships will go get 16 more units
Zayxus: As GS I would set as group of 12 Knights....
Aggiemowa: they seems to like 12s
Zayxus: I assume , Lego is prepared to defend the home, too?
vondrack: OUR home?
vondrack: or yours?
vondrack: well, actually, the answer is YES either way
Zayxus: we do not know, what GS plan in the next turns
Aggiemowa: nope
Zayxus: This evening I guested the numner of galleys at about 12 (again 12?)
Aggiemowa: that means that with 9 in the north they have little ability to resupply their forces in the south
Aggiemowa: what units were seen that the galleys offloaded last turn
Zayxus: (guess)
Aggiemowa: in the picture you sent a saw units on shore but not what they were
Zayxus: there are 3 galleys
vondrack: btw, we would be able to send saltpeter this turn, too - just hooked up our first source
Aggiemowa: that would be perfect
vondrack: would you like us to send it?
Aggiemowa: we are roading 1 in ND but i think it might bew a turnb away
Aggiemowa: yes
Zayxus: sounds good
vondrack: ok, I will check with the rest of the team - but I believe there should be no problem, as we have another source close to being connected
Zayxus: Aggie, which one would you take next turn?
Aggiemowa: lego's is best that way you can keep upgrading, i'm not sure the road will be completed this turn
Zayxus: right
Zayxus: does lego need a fortress or something else to protect the Knights?
vondrack: we haven't thought of that yet
vondrack: they will likely be used offensively rather than defensively
vondrack: so I am not sure a fort is needed
vondrack: if they are badly wounded, they just withdraw behind the lines
Zayxus: right, for healing the Knight s after a retraet could move far west
vondrack: yep, with RoPs, they can escape in no time
Zayxus: hope there are enough to cope with 12 Knights
vondrack: ATM, not
Aggiemowa: we have enough 15riders+6pike(soon musk)
vondrack: it will take few more turns to get LEF to "full" strength
vondrack: great
vondrack: though... the riders will be missed in the South, will they not?
Zayxus: fine
Zayxus: in the south for defense there are some more Ansar
vondrack: I meant for the attack at Pamplona...
Aggiemowa: thatsa the draw back. currently we have 15 riders in north and 25 in the south
Zayxus: to attack Pamplona *and* defenf against GS I miss the number of unnits
Aggiemowa: but the fewer ships in the south opens up an offesnive option in that area
vondrack: looking at the map... Aggie, where should LEF gather?
vondrack: LEF1 is already where we earlier thought it would be deployed eventually (SE-SE of Macao)
vondrack: not sure if it still applies
Aggiemowa: let me see i was just thinking about that
vondrack: k
Aggiemowa: the hill sw,s of yellowkinfe is a good point, or the old ruins tile just w
Aggiemowa: if gs heads west you might want to gather at the hill s of skulgaria
vondrack: the hill would be best
Aggiemowa: ok
Aggiemowa: i think gs will head n this turn
vondrack: agreed
vondrack: pikes already in Y'knife?
Aggiemowa: yes
vondrack: good
Aggiemowa: and port isolation, i hope to get walls there
vondrack: roading the forest SW of Y'knife would allow our units to (counter)strike along the city, if needed
vondrack: oh, scrap it
vondrack: there is one more forest
Aggiemowa: sadly the road system in the east needs some work
vondrack: true
Zayxus: City of Resolute is the point of defense?
Aggiemowa: nope i really want to keep then south of there
Aggiemowa: generally between yellowknife and port isolation
Zayxus: the hill at the road or an the road??
Zayxus: a road arounf Yellowk would be good
Aggiemowa: yes it would be, right now we were concentrating on the east with the lower corruption. To be honest if not for panzer's job we'd have little good infrastructure
Aggiemowa: it was pretty bad when i came along
* MRex has joined #gow_cofa
Zayxus: are there workers near? Could a worker be bought?
MRex: hi
Zayxus: hi?
Zayxus: REX?
vondrack: hello
Aggiemowa: hi there,
MRex: that is me
Aggiemowa: this is mrex a memeber of our team
* Aggiemowa sets mode: +o MRex
Aggiemowa: by the ay your unit got promoted a few turns ago
MRex: neat
Zayxus: ah, Promotion, congratulations
MRex: hehe, i must be a natural at killing conversations
MRex: what were you guys discussing?
Aggiemowa: actually we were talking about the defesne in the north
Zayxus: true
Aggiemowa: gs landed
MRex: yep, i've seen
Aggiemowa: also we were talkign about how we could attack in the south too
Zayxus: streets are interrupted at Yellowknife for Lego
Zayxus: true, attack of GS on the hill , with Riders/Ansars or with catapults later
Aggiemowa: i have some workers i could use to road, but they were to be used to raise yellowknife to 7
Zayxus: difficult
vondrack: that's probably more important
Aggiemowa: yap
vondrack: 50% defensive bonus is a big deal
Aggiemowa: right it makes a musk 6+fort it is 6.75
Zayxus: how far is lego from the borders?
Aggiemowa: i mean 7
vondrack: LEF1 is SE-SE of Macao
vondrack: LEF2+LEF3 are NW of Dar-El-Killam
vondrack: N-NW and W-NW
vondrack: LEF4 is leaving Legos this turn
vondrack: LEF5 one turn later
vondrack: all knights, just LEF5 will probably contain 2 muskets
Aggiemowa: 13knights+2musk is impressive
Zayxus: that is rather far from the borders at 2 * 2 fields move each turn??
Aggiemowa: unfortunately
vondrack: yeah
vondrack: with RoPs, we should move more quickly, though
vondrack: up to 6 tiles a turn
MRex: that is good
Aggiemowa: but it insures that this will be the last time gs can atatck
Aggiemowa: from time of landing it is about 3 turns to the deployment area
Zayxus: Yellowknife could have been attacked in 2 turns?
Zayxus: sorry I missed the forest
Aggiemowa: yes
Aggiemowa: they could move n to hill then attack on turn 2
Aggiemowa: or they could move all north this turn and then move the knights ne,n. from there they are in range of both yellowknife and port isloation
Zayxus: but forest costs 2 points of movement?
Aggiemowa: right
Aggiemowa: but from the hill there is no forest n so they could move n and attack yellowknife
Zayxus: (My map is not showing such details)
Zayxus: Is there enough food for 7 citizens in Yellowknife?
Aggiemowa: thansk to the whea and irrigation there is
Aggiemowa: also we could rush irrigate to the west near skulagaria
Aggiemowa: also the game helps
vondrack: Aggie - Tatung Guard goes NE-E-NE next turn?
Aggiemowa: let me see
Aggiemowa: i can't see on my screenshgot but yes i think so
vondrack: ok, so... let me point out this:
vondrack: if he goes this way, he will be in Y'knife in 3 turns, fortified
vondrack: if he goes via Macao, he will be there in 3 turns, but not fortified
Aggiemowa: yap i think that was the plan
Aggiemowa: with his elite staus he'll stay unupgraded too
vondrack: however, all out forces could be S of Skulgaria in 2 turns, if not blocked by T G
Aggiemowa: a gl from him would be perfect there
vondrack: otherwise, it will be 3 turns for us to get to Skulgaria 2
Aggiemowa: well you forcers moving quicker are more important than 1 pike
vondrack: I was thinking about this:
vondrack: if GS moves N now, and attacks Y'knife then
vondrack: they will be licking their wounds
vondrack: if we are at Skulgaria 2 in 2 turns
Aggiemowa: yes
vondrack: we would be able to engage them immediately
vondrack: before they'd get their pike cover
MRex: that sounds good
Aggiemowa: that would be perfect
vondrack: of course - on condition they take Y'knife...
vondrack: if not, the better
Aggiemowa: well yeloowknife will be defended enough, to be safe
vondrack: then I think it's better to let your pike move faster
Aggiemowa: but its good to know incase we get a supper bad rng
Aggiemowa: ok that will work too, yellowknife with more pike means more riders to kill wekened units
Aggiemowa: weakened
vondrack: ok then, I will assume the road will be blocked by T G next turn
vondrack: nice thing GS knows zilch about where saltpeter is...
Aggiemowa: yes indeed
MRex:
MRex: how long until they get gunpowder?
vondrack: eons
vondrack: they still do not have invention
Aggiemowa: a while yet. last i checked they didn't have invention
MRex: very good
vondrack: probably running on 40-turn research
Aggiemowa: xpost
vondrack: they still do not have it
Aggiemowa: once we got leo's they slowed down i bet
vondrack: quite likely
Aggiemowa: the funny thing is in the south they have placed a group of pikes on a sp deposit
vondrack: hehe
MRex: haha
Aggiemowa: yap
Zayxus: I saw it
Aggiemowa: i almost fee; sorry for them, ALMOST
vondrack: LoL
MRex: i don't
MRex: of course i don't actually know anyone on that team either
Aggiemowa: of course there is still achance they;ll go for thordoba. In that case the knights have to go on open ground for a turn and would never make their destination
Aggiemowa: there some nice people on that team
MRex: yeah, i think that would be suicide
Aggiemowa: of course i uasually get along with all
MRex: i get along with most too, however there is a faction of the isdg i can't wait to get utterly destroyed
Aggiemowa: lol
MRex: i hear you guys are doing splendedly so far, keep up the good work
Aggiemowa: we'll try
vondrack: well, with a splendid starting position, what would you expect... ))
Zayxus: lego offers Salpeter this turn?
Aggiemowa: we just needed bananas
Aggiemowa: yes
vondrack: to GoW, yes
Zayxus: you are at turn this moment?
vondrack: yes
vondrack: just having the save opened
Zayxus: that is fine then
vondrack: but I suspect we will not play until tomorrow morning
vondrack: we still debate the note to GS a bit
vondrack: and now this saltpeter thingy
vondrack: finally some thrill for us...
Aggiemowa: exciting isn;t it, no more 5 min turn
Zayxus: not at all
Zayxus: not at all 5 minutes only
Zayxus: is there a chance for the idea of 8 cataputs with 10 Muskets or would we better attack with Riders and Ansars against Pkemen?
Aggiemowa: i'd go with the riders
MRex: riders rock
Aggiemowa: but that has some merit for defesne if we rush build a road to the hill
Zayxus: it is faster with Ansars and Riders to realize to attack..
Aggiemowa: yes, as i said from that hill we can take barcelona
MRex: brb
Zayxus: GOW needs on e turn to heal the Riders in Alamo, right?
Aggiemowa: yes
Zayxus: then there is not an attack in 330 AD = next turn?
Aggiemowa: right
Aggiemowa: i need to go, but thanks for coming
Zayxus: thank you too, need to sleep.
* Aggiemowa has quit IRC (Quit: )
vondrack: ok, see you in a week
vondrack: good night
Session Close: Fri Nov 07 00:02:33 2003

[vondrack]

A short email form Zayxus:

Hi ,

GS is with 8 Knights at a field north of Alamo in the mountains,
and so FortLoewenmut could be attacked in 2 turns over the mountains.
ND prepares to defend FortLoewenmut against a possible attack from the mountains after next turn.

Greetings
Zayxus

[vondrack]

Email from Hot_Enamel (GoW):

Hey,

Just wanted to let you know that whatever Lego said to GS, has certainly rattled them & RP.

GS have made suggestions of peace
- Coupled with a threat of 20 GS knights poised to strike The Alamo & 12 GS knights ready to attack Yellowknife on the next turn.

And RP have sent word that they are wanting peace, because Lego has interfered and GS may exit the war.
- While threatening us with a perpetual war & war weariness if we don't accept peace, and we must still allow them a serious amount of land.

I think its in the hands of the RNG.
GoW is bracing for impact.
If the attack by GS is successful, they could demand anything they want
If they fail miserably, they will exit, and RP may be left on their own.

Regs

[redstar1]

wow, what power we wield.....