Turn 183: 690 AD

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by DeepO

vmxa1, that's exactly the point. GoW can't build it themselves, ND can't build it as both of them lack the research capacity. They can decide who to give it to: either actively helping us, or staying passive and let Lego have it. But Lego is a major risk for them... and with Hoover and 2 extra techs, they have won the game without much doubt. We have to tell GoW that, to make sure they understand it fully.

DeepO

Maybe we should give them our evaluation of the status and see if they concur.

If they need some evidence then we could include some screens.

[DeepO]

vmxa1, yes indeed. I think we should prepare an analysis for them, to convince them (if we need to).

There's one more thing we should probably mention: Lego is now strong compared to us. And, their power graph keeps on rising... they're building more units. Already, we think they can have a complete sea wall (otherwise it will be close), as they have more strength (which doesn't need to imply more units), and fewer tiles to cover. If they don't have a complete sea wall, they're not playing it smart, and so far Lego has been playing very smart...

military, they could probably handle 2 nations by now, so in case GoW wants to attack Lego later on, it will not only need the help of ND, but also of us. If Lego has Hoover, they could probably handle the 3 of us. It's bad enough they have the pyramids, giving them Hoover right after their GA would be suicide for the other teams. At least for us it is not like that: We need Hoover to keep at least a little bit competitive, as we're overall #4 now, and are falling because all our landtiles are already in use.

(okay, I don't really believe that last statement, we're still #2 in pop, GNP and Production, but it is a fact we're going to need special focus or fall quickly behind. And I doubt we'll be able to go for a SS victory, which means that when the new bunch of troops arrive, we'll probably have to fight another war or 2. If we can get the best production timed when we're building our new army, we should be able to win, even if we have the lowest tilecount)

DeepO

[vmxa1]

That is how I see it. I do not see any real way to win without more land. This is because if we did manage to stay in the hunt, we would become the target and could not fend off all three.

We must have a war between Bob and Lego at some point. We almost surely have to participate and aquire land, even if it is only to swap it for RP.

Bob can wait on going for us, until after Lego is damaged. Going for us soon will net nothing for anyone that they need. Our land will be hard to hold with the wolve pack trying to get a leg up on each other.

[Cort Haus]

These are the addresses to send the save to :

darekill {AT} gmx {DOT} de
neudemogyptica {AT} cylusion {DOT} com

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Arrian

IIRC from the chat, it was supposed to go something like this:

GS - Steam, Electricity
GoW - Medicine, Industrialization
ND - Nationalization, something (?)

And we all trade. But now I'm not so sure.

-Arrian

That was how I understood it. Confirming this would be useful, as it was also 'understood' that we don't trade tech with Lego.

I tried to spell out the case for them having to side with us or Lego on the ToE / Hoover in the PM to MZ, which asked them to reconsider on the ToG deal. Emphasising this point has to be a diplo objective.

[Arrian]

I am definitely uncomfortable about the "deal" worked out in the chat. There never was a formal written agreement, was there? ND doesn't appear to be playing along with our GAUL scheme, and once they're out, goodness knows what GoW will end up doing.

My guess is we will likely get a "oh, sorry, things change" or somesuch, while Lego nabs ToE & Hoover.

My cynical side is on top today, sorry.

-Arrian

[asleepathewheel]

I've sent mz a pm regarding a chat, t try to get a time for it.

[Arrian]

[vmxa1]

Not very promising, but all we can do is try.

[DeepO]

Actually, in case Lego gets nationalism as Vox's free tech instead of either steam of medicine, we can go at this alone, we won't need GoW. If GoW cooperates with Lego and gives them med and not to us, obviously we're screwed, but otherwise there is a (small) chance we don't need help from anyone, and nobody can catch us either.

Let's hope it comes to that. Also, we must have some kind of guarantees that once we believe GoW will provide Med to us, they're actually doing it too. We've been crossed too many times by them. I see them perfectly able to help Lego as well, instead of only us...

DeepO

[Arrian]

Oh, the joys of trying to work out deals with Mercenaries.

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Indeed

Sleepy, if you go chatting with GoW, just post something here... if I can and am awake I'll join you. I'm sure that others will join as well if they see the announcement.

Nice topic of the chat, btw

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Yeah, good opener with GoW, sleepy.

I'll keep an eye out for any chat-calls, and let me know if there's anything urgent that you can't attend do and I'll try and help.

[asleepathewheel]

mercenaries eh?

I think I can use that angle a bit.

got a response from MZ, I'll probably just pop into their chatroom sometime and chat with him one on one, if that's alright.

what are my limits?

I figure to bring up stuff like:

Lego is now strong to us
need medicine by turn xx
going to try to build ToE
Goal is to advance asap to marines
get them to go for industrialization after medicine
cut down luxes to lego (to one for one)
some agreement about coal/rubber if we have none


The deal before was, correct me if I'm wrong:
GS: Steam/Electricity
GW: Medicine
ND: Nationalism

right?

we might want to hash out a plan through marines, how do we as a team feel about other trades?

GS: Steam/Electricity/Sci Method/Atom Theory/Electronics/Rep Parts/radio/motorized transportation
GoW: Medicine/Industrialization/Corporation/Refining/Combustion/mass production/amphib warfare
ND: Nationalism/Steel/Espionage??/cash to us/flight


Please someone smarter than me analyze that scheme. I know we are getting screwed, but take away the 2 free ToE techs and we are about even.

[Cort Haus]

GoW : Med + Indust
GS : Steam + Elect
ND: Nat + ?