GoW- Diplomacy comments #2

[Octavian X]

A comment on the chat: For the love of Christ, it's xenophobia! No Z! The spelling is likely some inside PTWDG I missed (then again, there are several thousand of hose), but really...

Something tells me GoW was bluffing somewhat. I wouldn't be suprised at all if this was a front to hid their own ND ambitions.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Octavian X
A comment on the chat: For the love of Christ, it's xenophobia! No Z! The spelling is likely some inside PTWDG I missed (then again, there are several thousand of hose), but really...

Something tells me GoW was bluffing somewhat. I wouldn't be suprised at all if this was a front to hid their own ND ambitions.

the zenophobia joke refers to Master Zen of GoW. Either that or they really don't know how to spell.

[notyoueither]

X, not Z. I knew that. I wish I could claim inside joke, but I won't. I cop to being a crappy typist with spotty spelling.

[Arrian]

Ok, so GoW will respect the NAP (for now). That allows us to rush troops west to help stop ND.

If necessary, we may have to declare war on ND in a few turns. It may be interesting to see GoW's reaction to that.

-Arrian

[DeepO]

good chat... you evaded most things. 2 things that might have been lost in the barrage was that we do not tolerate cultural border crossings (you mentioned it, but I'm not sure GoW knows that also includes temp border crosses), and that there really was no option that we did not invade RP if ND and GoW were carving it up.

BTW, GoW thinks it can control ND foreign policy, yet has no deal other then the contract with them? Yeah, right. That will work

As to the territory agreement: it was simply a tile-for-tile, lux-for-lux division. Meaning ND got the South, GoW got the North, and they meet somewhere near where the ND capital is now. It's obvious we can't let that happen, and they know, but think we won't bother, or would simply let them walk all over us.

It's also obvious they fear us a great deal, and rightfully so. They are half willing to let us attack ND, and take them out, the only problem for them would be that that would mean that they are next, and they know that that would be a very poor position. When attacking RP they can strike a deal that their territory gets spread out over what ND has already, if we join RP, they won't even get ND territory, even if they would directly attack them.

Because they know we won't breach the NAP, they won't attack us either unless they have an obvious huge opportunity to harm us. Bilbao would certainly not qualify as that, perhaps a massive invasion of Stormia would (in which case they have to land in our South). If we continue to take RP gifts, they might consider it, but not very fast. If we start taking ND cities, they might join in, and fight with desperation.

The only problem I see is that if ND does not take Santiago, we will have to attack them, giving them a negative WW, and us a pos one. I would prefer it the other way around

DeepO

[notyoueither]

Chatted with MZ.

The good news. They dither. Toledo is saved. Our foot can beat their riders to Toledo if they move as indicated. I think.

The bad news? I'm not sure. They may DoW if we say no. We must say no. Them getting into that mountain gets them beyond the Bilbao-Toledo block. RP will have to leave NM with us for the second wave to protect.

If we say no, and they proceed, then the NAP is void. That is one bright light. If they proceed, we will have to tie up forces we need to aid RP with. That is not so good a light.

[asleepathewheel]

Why don't we say yes, but have toledo gifted to us this turn. RP needs the units, with leon having fallen, they can strike pamplona next turn. So we buy some time on both sides of the map. Agree to their demands, but when the open the next turn, their quest will be stymied again.

[notyoueither]

sleepy. they will move as indicated waiting for our answer, which i can asure you will come after they have sent the turn.

When we say no, they will choose between violating the NAP, or moving SW through the jungle to get to RP.

If we say yes, the NAP is not violated, and they will have flanked the Bilbao-Toledo block. We will have to keep and defend NM till that stack of riders is eliminated, and we shall have to violate the NAP to eliminate that stack.

Now, GoW could not be doing a better job of doing no damage if they tried. What if they are waiting for something? Like ND to get stuck in deep in RP territory, and GS knights in position to do serious harm to their ansar stack?

Or, they are relaying real communications to ND, and saying 'look, we tried. GS said no.' That is another possibility.

We say no. That much is obvious.

[asleepathewheel]

Ah, I see, I was confused about the turn sequence. 10bc, 10ad, 30ad. blah. I see your point. No is the way to go.

[Arrian]

We have to deny the request. It may result in war. So be it.

-Arrian

[vulture]

Back from the public forum, Unortho is speculating that RP gave us the cities in return for techs and gold (since RP has suddenly acquired engineering off us) to give us a desired toe-hold on Bob without being involved in the war. He thinks we are benig manipulated because GoW and ND are being forced into attacking us since we are acting like their enemy and helping RP, thus getting us involved militarily in the war as well.

What he doesn't seem to know (or speculate on publically) is that we are already committed militarily to helping RP regardless of what ND and GoW do about those cities, and that the engineering was nothing to do with the cities.

Good to have some idea what your opponents are thinking, so yuo can encourage them to be misguided.

[DeepO]

actually, I don't believe this is what UnO really thinks. It is more a provocation towards us, to try to get us explain it. I think he knows all to well that we would not accept cities that are almost certainly to be attacked, if we didn't anticipated to also go on some conquering of our own.

One big advantage (as long as GS keeps his mouth shut) is that we can use this argument towards Lego... at least for the time being. The longer we can keep Lego as friends, the better.

DeepO

[notyoueither]

Message received from UnO. Last paragraph, are they looking for the exits?

[FrustratedPoet]

Yes it looks like they are.

I'm not sure how far we can trust them on the "holding to the NAP" thing, but it wouldn't hurt to sound them out on a few things.

Do we think that a 50-50 split of the continent (with GoW getting the north) is the best possible outcome of this situation for us? If that is an achievable goal we should work towards it IMHO.

[Aeson]

I sorta get the impression they are looking for an anti-ND alliance (after RP falls) with us, in exchange for GS backing out of the protect RP business.

It would certainly be optimal for them if they could work something of that nature out. They get half of Bob fighting RP, then half of the rest of Bob fighting ND... both wars being 2v1 in their favor. I would expect they are also asking Lego about an anti-GS alliance timed for when our NAP runs out.