Israel civ

[Az]

oh, damn, I forgot. SORRY MING.

saberwulf : PM me.

[Abdul-Aziz]

Israel was and is irrelevant. It was (and is) very small, etc. There are som many other civs to include before Israel, the following:
Incs
Netherlands
Belgium
Cuba
Poland
Golden Horde
Cambodia
Brunei
Siam/Thailand
Ethiopia
Polynesia
Tibet
Austria/Hungary
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Portugal
Bantu
Ukraine
Oman
Denmark
Canada
Australia
Republic of South Africa
Bysantium
Cordoba Caliphate
Prussia (or is this considered part of Germany)?
etc.
etc.
etc.

[Az]

The Cordoba Halifat? and how would you place them and the spaniards on one map?
Cuba? come on.

Say... where are you from ?

[Abdul-Aziz]

Do you know how many important scientific achievements were done by Cordoba? They basically brought gunpowder to Europe. They also had colonised much f North Africa. As on placing them in one map with Spain, it would be possible - Spanish capital in Madrid and Cordoban - in Cordoba. If you are talking about full countries, then you can't place Roman and Ottoman empires, Russia and Mongol Empire, USA and Iroquis at one time as well. Cuba also had an impact on world history, they almost started WW3 and they also demonstrated thei imperialism in Angola. Cuba is also larger than Israel. Well, probably considering into account "the old Israel", Cuban and Israeli impact would be about equal. But there are many other states which had equal or more impact than Israel.

[sabrewolf]

abdul,

ah... interesting. my favourite of your list are the 'bantu' because noone proposed them until now. although these native africans never had a powerful civilization, it still could be a very interesting alternative to the zulu.
same with the inuit. never powerful, but definetly interesting civ to rule the world

but otherwise i disagree. israel did and does have bigger impact on world history than many of your list. even if you personally dislike israel, you can't dispute their importance and influence...

[Abdul-Aziz]

Israeli importance? Influence? It was and is relatively small country. It done not much influence at all. If not thr UN resolution allowing Jews to annex Palestine and Jews would still be scattered all over the world, no one would now even suggest to add Israel, even if most says that they suggest so because achievements of "the old Israel". Achievements of current Israel are null. Many, many current states did more influence and many more historical states did so. "The old Israel" also did not much influence. Just because they talks in news about Israeli cruelity much that doesn't means we should add them. Otherwise we should also add Zimbabwe, etc.

[ThePlagueRat]

Fair enough Abdul... or we could play Ethiophia, with Haile Selassie as a ruler. Just like in CTP. Or Sweden with Karl XII like in EU2.

[Abdul-Aziz]

Thanks ThePlagueRat :-)

[Beren]

Originally posted by Abdul-Aziz
Israel was and is irrelevant. It was (and is) very small, etc. There are som many other civs to include before Israel, the following:
Incas Netherlands Belgium Cuba Poland Golden Horde Cambodia Brunei Siam/Thailand Ethiopia Polynesia Tibet Austria/Hungary Pakistan Afghanistan Portugal Bantu Ukraine Oman Denmark Canada Australia Republic of South Africa Bysantium Cordoba Caliphate Prussia (or is this considered part of Germany)?

I agree with some countries on your list but not all of them: I completely back you in the Cordoba issue and Germany is basicly considered to be Prussia. But I think you missed a few: what about: Chile, Mali, Assyria, Armenia, Hittites, Athenians, Phoenicians, Hittites, Visigoths, Ostrogoths

[Panag]

Originally posted by Abdul-Aziz
Israel was and is irrelevant. It was (and is) very small, etc. There are som many other civs to include before Israel, the following:
Incs
Netherlands
Belgium
Cuba
Poland
Golden Horde
Cambodia
Brunei
Siam/Thailand
Ethiopia
Polynesia
Tibet
Austria/Hungary
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Portugal
Bantu
Ukraine
Oman
Denmark
Canada
Australia
Republic of South Africa
Bysantium
Cordoba Caliphate
Prussia (or is this considered part of Germany)?
etc.
etc.
etc.

hi ,

if Israel is "irrelevant" , the civ that thought the world a great deal of things , then why do you place a little country on the list that has done next to nothing for mankind like belgium , ........

have a nice day

[ottok]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

if Israel is "irrelevant" , the civ that thought the world a great deal of things , then why do you place a little country on the list that has done next to nothing for mankind like belgium , ........

have a nice day

ISREAL IS NOT CIV IT IS PLACE AT UNITED SOLDIERS OF AMERICA!

BUT PALESTIINA IS!

FREEDOM AND PEACE CAM IF ARIEL SHARON GO TO WAY

ANYTIME WHEN PALESTINIAN IS KILLLED,ARIEL SHARON IS CAM FROM HATE FROM MUCH...

AND GO OUT,NOW!

[Panag]

Originally posted by ottok


ISREAL IS NOT CIV IT IS PLACE AT UNITED SOLDIERS OF AMERICA!

BUT PALESTIINA IS!

FREEDOM AND PEACE CAM IF ARIEL SHARON GO TO WAY

ANYTIME WHEN PALESTINIAN IS KILLLED,ARIEL SHARON IS CAM FROM HATE FROM MUCH...

AND GO OUT,NOW!

hi ,

ottok , before you speak you should learn more about some facts , ....

second ; stay on topic

politics dont fit in this thread , .....

bye

[Ming]

ottok is restricted.
(this isn't the only on topic thread that he has been posting these kind of messages in)

And while I know there is a fine line in this thread... he easily crossed it. So please stay on topic and do not use this thread for a current events discussion of the Middle East.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I must disagree with Abdul-Aziz's list of cultures as important and Israel.

Incs - gone, toast. Influence culturally throughout latin America and nowhere else.

Netherlands - Important these days as a seat of governance... that is constantly overlooked.

Belgium - What?

Cuba - I like Cuba a lot more than Israel, but despite their cool culture they've rarely excercized more than a colonized or surviving role.

Poland - Interesting. A good choice.

Golden Horde - Mongols.

Cambodia - I do agree with this one.

Brunei - So, one rich guy. So what?

Siam/Thailand - Alright, but as influential as Israel or Judaism? Come on.

I could go on, endlessly. But let's face it:

Israel is the "spiritual home" of Judaism, the BASIS OF CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM. How can Canada or Brunei compete with that?!?

For once I agree with Panag.

[Abdul-Aziz]

Panag, Yahweh Sabaoth:

Belgium did much, it had big size with colonies (Zaire/Congo) and was one of colonial powers of 19th century.

Brunei - you probably don't know history of it. In fact, Kingdom of Bruinei before British came had conquered much of Indochina and Indonesian isles.

Golden Horde - was later than Mongols and it was already much different

Netherlands - important not only toda, always important. They firstly done the conception that to have better economy you have not to have bigger fields, but instead make them more efficient. Also, they were a big empire and Amsterdam was European trade center for centuries.

As for Israel being the start of Judaism, well ,it is, but it is the only state practicising it actually. So we than could add all the African animist states just because they practicises religions they've created. Islam and Christianity is already very different from Judaism btw.

Ottok, you said the truth.
Bweren, thanks for support :-)