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City walls. Are they worth the bother?

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  • The Mad Monk
    replied
    Yeah, that can be a problem, and I've lost than a few settlers because of it. I've lost a city only once, however, because I always shoot for the Great Wall--and (in SP) I've never missed it. A way around the 1-move square problem may be to build fortresses; they make great barb traps, and I'v seen them bunker down without attacking, even if a city is right next to them.

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  • DaveV
    replied
    Mad Monk - the problem is that the pirates will kill your diplomats before they have a chance to do anything. The crusaders or dragoons land next to your city. If the movement cost of the landing square is one, they still have a move left. They use it to attack your city. By the time your turn rolls around, your city has fallen.

    Note: the pirate ships will start disgorging knights or crusaders after the discovery of Chivalry, and dragoons after the discovery of Tactics. No more piracy after the discovery of Mobile Warfare. All this information is from "The Barbarian Paper" by William Keenan:
    http://sleague.apolyton.net/Guides/sldt_barbtechs.shtml

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  • The Mad Monk
    replied
    That's why I tend to keep diplos in my coastal cities.

    My first reponse when I see any barbarians is, "great, more recruits!"

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  • spyvsspy
    replied
    yes, i have been the victum of barb dragoons crushing a city without walls..... seems to happen when i get gunpowder and lost the vet status of my pikemen..... i am sure this isnt random

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  • Steve Clark
    replied
    In my current small map game, I've modified my walls strategy slightly - only building in select cities. The biggest problem, as DaveV expertly said, is barb pirates. I keep a few NONE units on patrol in strategic areas to prevent them from taking a non-walled city.

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  • spyvsspy
    replied
    i have never played a human opponent before..... but i reading that it is alot more difficult. In single player i only build walls in my capital and my border cities with the ai..... as the border changes, and it always does , i remove the walls and use the money to buy more units or improvements

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  • Ming
    replied
    In MP, I hold off as long as I can, but I do build them. Expansion is the key early, and I'm willing to take the same risk that many other posters are taking by building more settlers instead of city improvements.

    Now, once you have made contact with a hostile human...

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    City walls are definitely worthwhile. They have no upkeep costs, so they give your cities a chance to grow and increase production by building something other than units without hurting your treasury, and who can't use a defense bonus?

    Long live democracy!
    --Silver Dragon's sister

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  • DaveV
    replied
    The greatest danger to cities in single-player is the barbarian pirates. If a shipload of crusaders or dragoons lands on clear land next to one of your cities, they can take it out in a flash. Once Chivalry is discovered, I will build walls in any coastal city that I can't afford to lose. Generally, the only city I can't afford to lose is my capital. The alternative to walls is to convert any coastal grass/plains/tundra/desert to slower terrain.

    In multi-player, of course, it's a different story...

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I think that city walls need to be built, but only very late. The units in the early game that can win against a fortified defensive unit (phalanx, pikeman, musketeers, riflemen, alpine troops, mech. inf.) are attack units. (catapults, cannons, artillery, howitzer) The solution is to build a mounted unit. (horseman, elephant, dragoons, calvary.) The mounted units can beat the attack unit before it gets to the city. After armors, though, you need city walls, or you will be blasted into oblivion.



    ------------------
    Long live the Communists!
    -- SilverDragon

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  • Aurelius
    replied
    Hey, one good thing about building city walls is tearing them down to rush buy a wonder...

    AU

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  • War4ever
    replied
    slowhand i guess i am misinformed then, i know all you said is that you build them, i was taking it as i dont' build them in the early game, i assumed you did, sorry

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I didnt say I built walls as first improvement, W4E. I said I build them. Has nottadamnthing to do with expanding.

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  • War4ever
    replied
    Inca911.... your statement about perfectionists liking walls and conquerers not becaue they never stay put is oh so true...

    If i am conquering , there is no way i would waste resources on walls, hell even on an enemies home soil.

    the reason why? Purely becasue my invasion force is usually so large that he wont get close, plus i attack in multiple fronts to confuse people and yes sometimes myself

    Second is that if he comes with dips, the first thing to go are the walls as the newly conquered city is likely to have lost most but not always all of the other improvements, therefore i don't waste the resources on them.

    If i am on multiple islands, ie any place building more settlers for expansion, then i will wall up my core island cities, ie the ones on the same mass as my capital. No point in leaving myself vulnerable, although city walls dont make the paranoid warmonger in me more complacent, especially since walls come down so easy and then your ripe for the picking, so i often have the huge task force awaiting potential poachers or glory hunters. However sometimes accidents occur and i have to fire the military advisor, after i rebuild my civ from ruin

    Well its not quite that bad , but i have taken some damage at times, not even mongol armour is inpregnable

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  • Adam Smith
    replied
    Against the AI, I build city walls only around my capital (wonders) and super science city. Otherwise I use mobile defense. You can build a dip and a crusader for less than the shield cost of walls in one city. Centrally located with good roads, these two units can cover four to six cities each. In case of attack, bribe the first wave of units with dip, then attack with the bribed units and crusader. Sell the walls once you have a good railroad system, since at that point you can immediately bring in units from anywhere.

    ------------------
    "I fear that I shall die a Prince."
    -Edward VII, Prince of Wales

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